This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@revenant "Trendy"? I would not have said either religion or science is a matter of fashion but it's certainly true that far fewer people follow any religion these days. Not from fashion but because they see no need for it, or simply don't believe in gods.
However, most religious people also accept modern scientific knowledge; but that started back in the Age of Enlightenment when most of the pioneering scientists were also regular Christians. They saw their studies as showing what God does, not whether there is a god.
However, most religious people also accept modern scientific knowledge; but that started back in the Age of Enlightenment when most of the pioneering scientists were also regular Christians. They saw their studies as showing what God does, not whether there is a god.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@revenant I agree, but taught by whom, though? Parents? Each other? Things they read on the Internet? I can't speak for other lands but I am pretty sure that would not be part of the UK's schools' curricula! Instead, the youngsters would certainly pick up on anything like that from "social"-media or their own peers.
There is anyway nothing new in that crude notion about "future" versus "Ignorance". There was plenty of arguing over it in the 19C, let alone this. I think it developed further in the 20C when science and engineering became stamped with a popular over-optimism about them "taming Nature" and bringing some sort of limitless, future Golden Age. It shows in a lot of 20C literature and art, although even then some science-fiction and futurist authors did warn that the Age might be anything but Golden.
Golden or otherwise, it seemed an Age that would have forgotten an almost-instinctive human yearning for something "spiritual", typically but not necessarily by believing in gods, but certainly transcending day-to-day life and its concerns.
What worries me about any such binary notions though, are that they reject understanding the basic premise of each of both science and of religion, are potentially very divisive, and perhaps hint at a developing "Age Of [i]Un[/i]-Enlightenment".
Un-enlightment too, very much spread on-line by people unable to spot the irony of using the Internet for that purpose.
There is anyway nothing new in that crude notion about "future" versus "Ignorance". There was plenty of arguing over it in the 19C, let alone this. I think it developed further in the 20C when science and engineering became stamped with a popular over-optimism about them "taming Nature" and bringing some sort of limitless, future Golden Age. It shows in a lot of 20C literature and art, although even then some science-fiction and futurist authors did warn that the Age might be anything but Golden.
Golden or otherwise, it seemed an Age that would have forgotten an almost-instinctive human yearning for something "spiritual", typically but not necessarily by believing in gods, but certainly transcending day-to-day life and its concerns.
What worries me about any such binary notions though, are that they reject understanding the basic premise of each of both science and of religion, are potentially very divisive, and perhaps hint at a developing "Age Of [i]Un[/i]-Enlightenment".
Un-enlightment too, very much spread on-line by people unable to spot the irony of using the Internet for that purpose.
revenant · F
@ArishMell Universities. I have my son to listen to. He is for communism. The beliefs are a hodge podge of almost religious nature : that mankind have to subdue their basic human needs in order to elevate consciousness to form ONE, genderless and then everybody will be happy.
Science is capable of solving all humanity's problems and we eventually will be half machines ourselves.
It is the pursuit of happiness.
They are taught that gender, countries, wars, colours , religion etc etc have done nothing but divide people. Individuality is a curse for humanity.
Those are my mental notes when I discuss with him.
Science is capable of solving all humanity's problems and we eventually will be half machines ourselves.
It is the pursuit of happiness.
They are taught that gender, countries, wars, colours , religion etc etc have done nothing but divide people. Individuality is a curse for humanity.
Those are my mental notes when I discuss with him.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@revenant Less so nowadays! It wasn't the scientists and engineers so much as things like the popular press who were responsible for the worst hyperbole; but the technical people themselves were genuinely enthusiastic about what their fields could bring.
I think it's really only since about the 1980s that we have come to realise fact from fiction at the more practical levels.
We cannot deny the benefits of modern technical knowledge and applications, but we've also recognised nothing can reach the science-fiction's "Golden Age" perfection; and while most is good, there is also a lot that has turned not as good as we'd wanted. And some perhaps we would never have wanted!
I think it's really only since about the 1980s that we have come to realise fact from fiction at the more practical levels.
We cannot deny the benefits of modern technical knowledge and applications, but we've also recognised nothing can reach the science-fiction's "Golden Age" perfection; and while most is good, there is also a lot that has turned not as good as we'd wanted. And some perhaps we would never have wanted!
revenant · F
@antonioioio @ArishMell I presently am in Toronto , Canada and my son went to university in Toronto. I can understand that he is cut off from his origins which are europeans. It is a sort of tabla rasa here.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@revenant The benefits of technical advances do exist; but I do know many young people might never enjoy them to the full, nor own a house, even if they find well-paid work.
While wealthy Londoners in the legal, money and entertainments trades buy second-homes to sky prices beyond local reach in attractive parts of England; many professionals working in the capital - teachers, nurses, scientists etc - are lucky to buy just a modest flat in Greater London and its suburbs.
Car ownership is becoming ever costlier, and many people will never afford battery-powered ones, throwing more people into having to use public transport and accept its limitations, including its complete lack in many areas. Some living within British cities now choose to have no car at all.
If the young were wide-eyed idealists, I think their situation will soon cure them of their dreams.
I am an uncle-times-seven and some of them now have children of their own. My direct nephews and nieces are all working and some have bought their own homes; but their children's generation...? Only time will tell, but it is said that there are now young couples so fearful of the future that they are choosing not to have children.
While wealthy Londoners in the legal, money and entertainments trades buy second-homes to sky prices beyond local reach in attractive parts of England; many professionals working in the capital - teachers, nurses, scientists etc - are lucky to buy just a modest flat in Greater London and its suburbs.
Car ownership is becoming ever costlier, and many people will never afford battery-powered ones, throwing more people into having to use public transport and accept its limitations, including its complete lack in many areas. Some living within British cities now choose to have no car at all.
If the young were wide-eyed idealists, I think their situation will soon cure them of their dreams.
I am an uncle-times-seven and some of them now have children of their own. My direct nephews and nieces are all working and some have bought their own homes; but their children's generation...? Only time will tell, but it is said that there are now young couples so fearful of the future that they are choosing not to have children.