[b]Huge crowds are gathering in central London[/b] this afternoon (3/23/2019) to demand another public say to “stop the Brexit madness”, with hundreds of thousands yet to set off.
I love you. [u]I love you[/u]. You are the ones. You are the future. You are not stuck in the past. You are looking forward. You know where our common future is. It is in Europe. Our Europe. Our home.
I would want to kiss all of you if I could. Stay strong. Stay with us. We are family. You are in good company.
[b]Europeans of all countries unite![/b] 🇪🇺 🌷
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Obviously all Europeans’ future is in Europe and obviously co-operation and friendly relations between all Europeans is highly desirable. Leavers are not anti-European we are anti-EU. We see the EU as increasingly totalitarian, or perhaps I should say imperialist, more interested in its survival as an organisation than in the welfare and wishes of its citizens - characteristics which it has amply demonstrated in the Brexit negotiations. Personally I think the EU is, in the long run, a danger to the very European ideals which you espouse and which I share.
@MartinII "We see the EU as increasingly totalitarian,
— Come on you must be joking! Britain has fought an uphill battle against the darkness of totalitarianism during WWII, and it was your finest hour. The finest, really. Comparing the EU to totalitarianism is entirely misguided my friend.
@helenS Well I certainly wouldn’t compare the EU to Hitler, and perhaps totalitarian is not quite the right word. How about controlling? But the EU does attempt to impose a considerable degree of political and economic conformity on its member states, to the extent of applauding some election results (eg Macron) and condemning and seeking to undermine others (eg Grillo and Salvini). And of course the Council and Commission are not directly accountable to the people. I think this attempt to impose common standards and marginalise dissent is undesirable and potentially dangerous.
@helenS Well, if you are trying to achieve a democratic EU you certainly need a democratically elected parliament and one which directly controls the executive, as parliament in the UK and in many European countries does. To take one obvious example, Commissioners (ie Ministers) should be drawn from elected members of parliament, not nominated by governments. I’d still be worried about the democratic deficit in unorthodox countries. As things stand right-wing Hungarians, or Austrians, or Italians have some hope of sometimes gaining power. I think that’s healthy, so long as they can be voted out again. A pan-European government would, almost certainly, always have roughly the same ideological complexion, which I think would be dangerous. Still, the model you describe is much preferable to the present one.
@helenS But in order to allow true cultural diversity, isn’t it also necessary to allow political diversity? A tricky one, I think, which I will reflect on, and perhaps opine on, in due course. For now, thank you for a civilised and enjoyable debate today.
