Taliban bans Afghan women from attending university

@Northwest Yes. We can encourage, but we can not mandate.

@SomeMichGuy The real issue there, is that this primitive sect, both men and women, totally agree. While some women are struggling to get educated, the majority of women agree with the Taliban, and do not want their daughters to be exposed to the "evils" of possibly having a male professor interact with them.

Just as our evangelists believe that if they don't "convert" people, they will be held responsible on judgment day, these Taliban feel the same.

The problem is religion, not just an individual religion.

@Northwest It's "convert", and not all evangelists are trying to stop women being educated...

For me, the problem is sometimes baked-in, but always made worse by misreading, misinterpreting, and the mishandling of the religion/texts/precepts it by people with hubris beyond measure.

@SomeMichGuy [quote]It's "convert[/quote]

Typo, fixed.

[quote] and not all evangelists are trying to stop women being educated...[/quote]

I did not say they're trying to do that, period. That wasn't my point. The point is that like Evangelists, they feel driven by a higher power, to do something.

[quote]For me, the problem is sometimes baked-in, but always made worse by misreading, misinterpreting, and the mishandling of the religion/texts/precepts it by people with hubris beyond measure.[/quote]

Noting in the Muslim religious books says women cannot be educated, but a good percentage of the people enforcing what they think is the rule, are not capable of reading, and those who can read the common languages in Afghanistan, are not capable of understanding Arabic, the only language they're allowed to use to read the Quraan. A circular reference colossal fucked up of a failure.

@Northwest I think it's a bit deeper than that.

Yes, religion not "a" religion" but that is an excuse to deny choice.

However accurate that the "majority" of women agree with the Taliban, that is not the point.

There are plenty of Afghan parents - fathers as well as mothers - who support their daughters wish to be educated and have worthwhile lives; but men like the Taliban think women worthless and despise the concept of personal choice.

I stress "a" religion, and say "[u]like[/u] the Taliban". Although the Taliban is far nastier, they have their religion-excused, male-chauvinist parallels in other faiths elsewhere, even in countries like the USA.

@ArishMell [quote]Yes, religion not "a" religion" but that is an excuse to deny choice.
[/quote]

How many people "[b][i][u]choose[/u][/i][/b]" their religion? Usually, humans are [b][i][u]born[/u][/i][/b] into a religion. It's awfully hard to unchain yourself, when you're subjected to brain washing from age 0.

[quote]There are plenty of Afghan parents - fathers as well as mothers - who support their daughters wish to be educated and have worthwhile lives;[/quote]

I did not say there aren't. I'm saying that they are in the minority.

[quote]but men like the Taliban think women worthless and despise the concept of personal choice.[/quote]

It may be about them thinking women are worthless. They truly believe they're "saving" these women from an eternal life in hell, though at one point, it's hard to tell the difference: cruelty is cruelty.

@Northwest I agree that many cannot "choose" their religion as children, but Afghanistan is run by a vicious clique whose tenet is that even adults cannot change their minds and must adhere to what the clique says. Or risk being murdered.

To be fair, if that's possible, to the Taliban, there are equally selfish cults with petty rules and sexist restrictions on the fringes of Christianity, only these order their congregations just to abjure apostates, not kill them.

Besides, no-one outside the Taliban suggested that these young women were any less Muslim for wanting to become professional engineers, doctors, lawyers, scientists, diplomats etc.; or even simply to find employment in care, administration, shops or factories. Most are and would still be Muslims... just not the warped sort imagined by the "beardy-weirdies"*

.

There have been demonstrations outside some Afghan universities, and a number of professors have reigned in protest at the ruling. One reportedly did so on local TV.

If these reported as "professors" were so by the British definition - not just lecturers but recognised researchers who may also lead a university school - that is yet another blow to the country as its clique drags it back to Mediaeval times.

***

* Beardy-weirdy. A phrase I recall from the dialogue of a short series run a few years ago on BBC Radio Four, an translated extract from an Afghan radio soap-opera; and set around a family in, as I recall, one of the more rural areas. A sort of Pashtun equivalent of [i]The Archers[/i].

@ArishMell [quote]I agree that many cannot "choose" their religion as children, but Afghanistan is run by a vicious clique whose tenet is that even adults cannot change their minds and must adhere to what the clique says. Or risk being murdered.[/quote]



It's called Apostasy and it's the law in a number of countries: Malaysia, Maldives, Qatar, Somalia, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc., and the punishment is death. This relates to what I said the Qura'an not evolved.

Apostasy was punishable by death, during the Inquisition, but Christianity evolved.

[quote]There have been demonstrations outside some Afghan universities, and a number of professors have reigned in protest at the ruling. One reportedly did so on local TV.

If these reported as "professors" were so by the British definition - not just lecturers but recognised researchers who may also lead a university school - that is yet another blow to the country as its clique drags it back to Mediaeval times.
[/quote]

Literacy rate in Afghanistan is around 35%, more than double what it was before we invaded. But that's uneven, where it's around 10% for women. Among the Taliban, specifically, literacy is below 10% overall. I don't doubt there are women and men, who want equal rights to education, employment, etc. but these folks remain in the minority. Bottom line: we tried to solve that problem, but our approach left out the same group we were trying to help, now it's up to them to fix it.

@Northwest

[quote]Apostasy was punishable by death, during the Inquisition, but Christianity evolved.[/quote]

Yes, but [i]that[/i] was against Jesus' teachings.

@Northwest

They may be in a minority but the Taliban do not want anyone to choose personally; and want even that minority to vanish.

If our invasion did not help them, that does not really surprise me because our attention was mainly on fighting then suddenly deciding to withdraw to a time-table that helped the Taliban, not the citizens at large. It was only the USA that took that decision, but her NATO allies were insufficiently strong as a group to continue.

[i]New development:[/i]

Several major Moslem states including Saudi Arabia, have now condemned the Taliban's policy to ban education for girls and women, basically though not explicitly calling it un-Islamic.

(Just announced on the BBC News, after reporting the demonstrations in Kabul and elsewhere.)

@SomeMichGuy [quote]Yes, but that was against Jesus' teachings.
[/quote]

Even if true, does it matter? After all, we're talking about the Taliban, who are applying their rules, not what Islam tells them to do.

[quote][/quote]@ArishMell [quote]They may be in a minority but the Taliban do not want anyone to choose personally; and want even that minority to vanish.[/quote]

OK, but I don't know what this has to do with I said.

[quote]If our invasion did not help them, that does not really surprise me because our attention was mainly on fighting then suddenly deciding to withdraw to a time-table that helped the Taliban, not the citizens at large. It was only the USA that took that decision, but her NATO allies were insufficiently strong as a group to continue.
[/quote]

And what would the point of staying there another ten years be?

[quote]Several major Moslem states including Saudi Arabia, have now condemned the Taliban's policy to ban education for girls and women, basically though not explicitly calling it un-Islamic.
[/quote]

Yeah, that's what I've been saying here.

@Northwest Ironically "we" are still there, working on famine relief. The country is in a dreadful state.

The power is in the hands of one man and his circle of like-minded clerics based in Khandahar, not Kabul; and the more pragmatic politicians seem unwilling or unable to push him aside. Obviously he will ignore our complaints, but even if he will take criticism from countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia seems doubtful, Still, their criticism might encourage others to stand up to him.

@ArishMell [quote]Ironically "we" are still there, working on famine relief. The country is in a dreadful state.[/quote]

I was responding to your comment about the military pullout, and how the US blindsided its allies, despite the fact that the deal to withdraw was signed and announced to the world on February 29, 2020, a full 18+ months BEFORE we actually pulled out. The initial deal called for a May 2021 withdrawal, but Biden delayed it.

I am amazed at how many people still believe this was a spur of the moment decision by the US.

There's only one country that can put pressure on the Taliban: Pakistan and Saudi Arabia has some sway there, in addition to MBS trying to pass himself as a man about town, ready to "modernize". So there may be some hope.

@Northwest

[quote]Just as our evangelists believe that if they don't "convert" people, they will be held responsible on judgment day, these Taliban feel the same.[/quote]

I don't know of Christian evangelists who try to force people to convert (except the JW cult...).

[sep]

[quote]Even if true, does it matter? After all, we're talking about the Taliban, who are applying their rules, not what Islam tells them to do.[/quote]

Yes, because idiots abusing religion is on them, not the religion, itself.

You are the one who brought up the incredible atrocities of the Inquistion but that was a crazy deviation from the text.

@SomeMichGuy [quote]I don't know of Christian evangelists who try to force people to convert (except the JW cult...).
[/quote]

I don't know any mainstream Muslims who try to force people to convert either. Let's stick to the historical perspective. Even Saudi Arabia doesn't try to do that. At one point, however, the penalty for not converting to Christianity, was instant death. Examples: the Crusades, the Inquisition.

[quote]You are the one who brought up the incredible atrocities of the Inquistion but that was a crazy deviation from the text.
[/quote]

And I'm still on topic: forbidding women from getting an education. That's got nothing to do with Islam.

As to sticking to the text, if you go back to the Old Testament, which is something Jesus followed, there's plenty of blood, gore, rape, and genocide there.

My point though remains that blind devotion to religion is the core problem.