If transgenderism is legit, then trans-racialism is too, and anyone claiming to be black is black.

@BohemianBabe Being man or woman isn't determined by identity at all, thank you 🙃

@BRUUH So what is it determined by?

@BohemianBabe By whether or not you match the definition of man or woman, duh.

@BRUUH What's a female?

@BohemianBabe following this comment because I've yet to hear a clear definition of that and I'm interested.

@BRUUH There have been cases of cis women, who you would call female, that were born without a vagina. There have also been cases of cis women whose chromosomes were XXY, XXX, or XYY.
So are they still female or no?

@BRUUH So here's what you're not understanding. Anytime we put things into a group, it's not totally clear cut. Scientists argue all the time over whether or not something meets the qualifications needed to fit a definition that, and this is important, they invented. Probably the most famous example is whether Pluto is a planet. The concept of what it means to be a planet was created by the community of astronomers, there is no objective answer, and there isn't just one or two traits something needs to have to be considered a planet.

So that being said, there are a bunch of qualifiers something needs to have to be considered a fish. There will be outliers, there will be fish without fins, but that's because fins alone don't define what it means to be a fish. Likewise, there are a bunch of attributes used to determine if someone is female. It's not JUST having a vagina, having a womb, having XX, or having a specific level of estrogen. If you can say, this is one of the rare fish that doesn't have fins, there's no reason you can't also say, this is one of the rare females that was assigned male at birth.

A trans woman who has been on HRT for a long time will have more estrogen than testosterone. She could have her dick and balls removed and replaced with a vagina. Should she then be considered female? I'd say yes. And by your definition, she'd be a woman.

Also, considering how many infertile women there are, defining women or females as people who can produce eggs and give birth is just inaccurate. We're not even talking about outliers here.

@BRUUH if producing immobile gametes is a requirement to be a woman, what do you call them after menopause? Or technically after birth, because all egg cells are already available in the ovaries then and just released, not produced anymore.

@BohemianBabe Your comment was making sense until you got to this point: A fish not having fins is analogous to a female missing one or maybe two KEY definitional characteristics of the female sex. It is NOT analogous to a male.. that's like saying "some fish don't have fins, so if I put fins on a dog, I can call him a fish and say he was only considered a dog at birth". Bruh, no.

[quoteA trans woman who has been on HRT for a long time will have more estrogen than testosterone. She could have her dick and balls removed and replaced with a vagina. Should she then be considered female? I'd say yes. And by your definition, she'd be a woman][/quote]
Males literally have estrogen too, just not as much on average. Having estrogen, even a large amount, is not apart of any sane definition of female. There are many species of organisms where estrogen and testosterone aren't even factors.

That's why in the definition, I didn't say "a female is someone with mobile gametes". I said female is the sex that has mobile gametes.

@NerdyPotato I didn't say it was an absolute requirement. I said female is the sex that has them. Females have pussies and mobile gametes like fish have fins; see the above analogy. Saying that not all women have that, therefore dudes with mobile gametes and a penis are women, is like saying that not all fish have fins, therefore a creature with a fin who walks on land is a fish.

What is YOU definition of male and female then?

@BRUUH How do you determine what sex someone belongs to if they don't need to have the features that define that sex?

@BRUUH
Good question... Are you talking about sex or gender?

@NerdyPotato I'm talking about the word. Give me the actual definition(s) of it.

@NerdyPotato [quoteHow do you determine what sex someone belongs to if they don't need to have the features that define that sex?][/quote]
How do I determine what species an organism is if they don't need to have the features that define that organism? Not all fish have fins.

@BRUUH the female sex is a person born with a vagina, womb and ovaries, and without a penis and testicles. The female gender is a person who identifies with social attributes that are generally associated with people of the female sex. And to extrapolate a little: some people have neither the male or female sex or gender.

@BRUUH exactly! Determining the species of an organism is subjective to a degree, and you're entirely correct that determining the sex of a human is too, and gender even more so.

@NerdyPotato That's not even a good definition. There are many types of females who aren't human that don't meet that definition. You're talking about human females.

The word gender has always only referred to non-human thing, mostly grammar. It's only in the last few decades, that (for political and ideological reasosn) gender got redfined in obscure academic circles to apply elsewhere. If Gender as a concept means how you identify, then it's no more silly than a word that could be made which means "what race someone is with regards to the social attributed they identify with that are generally associated with that race.".

Instead of the black race, how about the black sploof (made up word I just invented). A black sploof means a person who identifies with social attributes that are generally associated with people of the black race. <How is that any sillier than the new silly application of gender?

@BRUUH I agree that gender is made up. So the question is: why do so many people put so much value into it? Why is it on bathroom doors, passports, etc? Let's just get rid of the whole concept and let people be people. Problem solved!

@NerdyPotato I don't put any value in the definition of gender you just stated. I do put value into someone's actual manhood or womanhood for certain situations. for example: I don't want my middle school aged daughter in a locker room with a male gym teacher... is that so crazy? I don't want a dude whipping out his penis to pee in a urinal where my daughter can easily accidentally see.

@BRUUH since when do women bathrooms have urinals? Since when do gym teachers shower with their students? Do you have any original argument that applies to the real world?

@NerdyPotato Do you not live in the USA? "When do bathrooms have urinals?" Bro, what?

And i'm not talking about showering with their students. When I was in gym class in middle school, a male teacher was casually in the locker room with us.

Have fun defending someone with a penis (a grown man) in the bathroom with little girls.

@BRUUH "women bathrooms". You were talking about a dude whipping out his thing in a urinal where your daughter can see. If she goes to the man's bathroom, that's on her and this is a "problem" with cis men being in there too. (Not that I've ever seen someone's thing when they used the urinal in any place though.)

A male teacher going in the girls locker room at school sounds creepy, yes. But did he claim to be a transwoman to justify his presence or did you just admit that men barge in there regardless of what the door sign says/allows?

And are you sure you want people to use the locker room matching their birth certificate? That would mean that this assigned female at birth has to join your daughter:

@BRUUH
I just meant that we can say a fish generally has the following traits, but there will be outliers that we still define as fish because they have some or most of the traits. And the same goes for the concept of female. Most females have XX, but not all. Most females are assigned female at birth, but not all. A female is not just someone who has XX, though we can still say females generally have XX.


Yes, biological sex is a spectrum. As a rule, if someone has more estrogen than testosterone, they're classified as female, even in those rare cases where they're born intersex or without genitalia. The hormones are the defining feature.

If your definition of a female is just someone with a vagina, and that's it, that's the defining feature, then you have to consider Kim Petras to be female because she has a vag.