You GOP nuts who don't think we should help Ukraine.
We get to see exactly how our weapons perform in real time war without losing a single US soldier. And...in a perfect political cause. Its hand made for everything America could ask for.
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@sascha I don’t like how the post was phrased, as I don’t want Ukrainian soldiers losing their lives either, but it’s not exactly our (US) war to fight… and I 💯 agree with the continued military support from the U.S. including the Army Tactical Missile System that Zelensky is requesting in their fight against Russian aggression and until the Russian threat is neutralized against the sovereign nation of Ukraine and her neighbors.
sascha · F
@DarkHeaven you say that, but you said "it's really hard to see a negative" in your original comment. Thousands dead, destroyed and crumbling infrastructure, and millions displaced is a significant negative.
Regardless of your view of Russia, supporting this war means continuing the suffering.
If I was living in Ukraine, I'd just want it to stop.
Regardless of your view of Russia, supporting this war means continuing the suffering.
If I was living in Ukraine, I'd just want it to stop.
@sascha a negative into continued military support. You can’t believe I’d mean that there’s no negatives to the war. I have friends in Ukraine. I sure the fuck didn’t specify that and if you had some concern that’s what I meant, you could have asked instead of going off half baked with this utter stupidity.
sascha · F
@DarkHeaven you're failing to understand that continued military support means more human loss, which is really rudimentary.
It's just sad that so many are dying for a war they aren't going to win. The only way Ukraine could win is with direct participation from other countries, and no sane person should want that.
It's just sad that so many are dying for a war they aren't going to win. The only way Ukraine could win is with direct participation from other countries, and no sane person should want that.
sascha · F
@DarkHeaven without military support, Ukraine wouldn't be able to continue the war and so there would be a peace deal made with Russia. It could be that Russia is satisfied with taking most or all of Eastern Ukraine, or possibly they would want more. At a minimum, Ukraine would have to not join NATO, or join forces with the U.S in commercializing its natural resources.
Clearly, you see it differently, but I think survival is more important. Especially when you have no real way of winning.
Ukraine isn't facing extremely harsh measures or maltreatment if it reaches a deal with Russia.
In reality, life probably wouldn't be that different.
Clearly, you see it differently, but I think survival is more important. Especially when you have no real way of winning.
Ukraine isn't facing extremely harsh measures or maltreatment if it reaches a deal with Russia.
In reality, life probably wouldn't be that different.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
Elessar · 26-30, M
@sascha [quote]Thousands dead, destroyed and crumbling infrastructure, and millions displaced is a significant negative. [/quote]
These aren't the west fault. The west refusing to send aids would only cause more, not less of those.
[quote]continued military support means more human loss[/quote]
Not when that military support is being used against the one unilaterally starting the war, and not the other way around.
[quote]If I was living in Ukraine, I'd just want it to stop.[/quote]
I'm not sure Putin would care about what anyone that isn't himself wants. Hence why we're here.
[quote] without military support, Ukraine wouldn't be able to continue the war and so there would be a peace deal made with Russia. It could be that Russia is satisfied with taking most or all of Eastern Ukraine, or possibly they would want more. At a minimum, Ukraine would have to not join NATO, or join forces with the U.S in commercializing its natural resources[/quote]
This is to "peace" what r#pe is to love. Russia steamrolling a country until it forces it to surrender or accept unilateral "deals" has absolutely nothing to do with "peace".
You're here advocating for [b]genocide[/b].
These aren't the west fault. The west refusing to send aids would only cause more, not less of those.
[quote]continued military support means more human loss[/quote]
Not when that military support is being used against the one unilaterally starting the war, and not the other way around.
[quote]If I was living in Ukraine, I'd just want it to stop.[/quote]
I'm not sure Putin would care about what anyone that isn't himself wants. Hence why we're here.
[quote] without military support, Ukraine wouldn't be able to continue the war and so there would be a peace deal made with Russia. It could be that Russia is satisfied with taking most or all of Eastern Ukraine, or possibly they would want more. At a minimum, Ukraine would have to not join NATO, or join forces with the U.S in commercializing its natural resources[/quote]
This is to "peace" what r#pe is to love. Russia steamrolling a country until it forces it to surrender or accept unilateral "deals" has absolutely nothing to do with "peace".
You're here advocating for [b]genocide[/b].
ArtieKat · M
@sascha [quote]Regardless of your view of Russia, supporting this war means continuing the suffering.
If I was living in Ukraine, I'd just want it to stop.[/quote] You quite obviously haven't spoken to any Ukrainians. Even if the invasion had been successful in its early weeks the underground resistance from Ukrainians would have cost the occupiers dearly.
If I was living in Ukraine, I'd just want it to stop.[/quote] You quite obviously haven't spoken to any Ukrainians. Even if the invasion had been successful in its early weeks the underground resistance from Ukrainians would have cost the occupiers dearly.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@sascha [quote][i][b]"Ukraine isn't facing extremely harsh measures or maltreatment if it reaches a deal with Russia."[/b][/i][/quote]
Russia has a history of commiting genocides against it's neighbors, including Ukraine in the Holodomor. But okay, that was a long time ago, right? Russian soldiers today (both regular army and pmc's) have raped and pillaged their way through Ukraine's civilian population.
Russia has a history of commiting genocides against it's neighbors, including Ukraine in the Holodomor. But okay, that was a long time ago, right? Russian soldiers today (both regular army and pmc's) have raped and pillaged their way through Ukraine's civilian population.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@sascha, if my friends and I broke into your house and broke everything, smashed your possessions, pocketed everything of value that we found, and raped you and your children, before shipping the children off to our network of child traffickers back home, and then your friends and neighbors came running to your defense...
how would you then respond if I said just let me keep the first floor.
Would you drop all demands for the return of your possessions, reparations for the damages? And what about your children? Do my friends get to keep them? Or do you want them back too?
how would you then respond if I said just let me keep the first floor.
Would you drop all demands for the return of your possessions, reparations for the damages? And what about your children? Do my friends get to keep them? Or do you want them back too?
sascha · F
@sarabee1995 ridiculous analogy. Individuals in situations are different to countries in situations. I am surprised you don't know that.
However, I will add that if I knew there was a way to prevent this occurrence, I would surely take it.
In this circumstance, Ukraine can engage in dialogue with Russia, and both countries can agree to terms that will put this war to an end.
Past events, like the Holodomor, are not relevant to this discussion. Using emotive words and historical events to make your point leads me to think that you are very desperate, lol.
Truthfully, I have a greater idea of what Ukraine is like than all of you commenting, unless you too have actually been and had family there. I do know people who continue to live there, and they have different views, because they are different people. Some people do want to continue fighting Russia at any cost, but others are tired and don't want to see any more loss. Others don't like all the uncertainty this war brings, and want an end to it either way. Most people who have left Ukraine want the war to end as soon as possible, as they want to be able to plan their futures.
Most people, in war, are still individuals. They are people who just want to have a normal life where they can have living, breathing family members, and a home that they can live in.
I do not have an issue with people acknowledging Ukraine's right to fight, but I will always speak out against those who appear to be encouraging war, and are dismissive of the horrific consequences that come with it. This is why I responded to this post, and why my comment is disparaging of what the OP said.
This view of "oh, but Russia started the war!" is both unhelpful and redundant, especially when Ukraine can finish the war. Behaving like stubborn children isn't going to help anyone.
If you think that's a harsh way to view it, welcome to the world of harsh realities. This isn't about causes to me, it's about people being able to live and have a semblance of a country left.
However, I will add that if I knew there was a way to prevent this occurrence, I would surely take it.
In this circumstance, Ukraine can engage in dialogue with Russia, and both countries can agree to terms that will put this war to an end.
Past events, like the Holodomor, are not relevant to this discussion. Using emotive words and historical events to make your point leads me to think that you are very desperate, lol.
Truthfully, I have a greater idea of what Ukraine is like than all of you commenting, unless you too have actually been and had family there. I do know people who continue to live there, and they have different views, because they are different people. Some people do want to continue fighting Russia at any cost, but others are tired and don't want to see any more loss. Others don't like all the uncertainty this war brings, and want an end to it either way. Most people who have left Ukraine want the war to end as soon as possible, as they want to be able to plan their futures.
Most people, in war, are still individuals. They are people who just want to have a normal life where they can have living, breathing family members, and a home that they can live in.
I do not have an issue with people acknowledging Ukraine's right to fight, but I will always speak out against those who appear to be encouraging war, and are dismissive of the horrific consequences that come with it. This is why I responded to this post, and why my comment is disparaging of what the OP said.
This view of "oh, but Russia started the war!" is both unhelpful and redundant, especially when Ukraine can finish the war. Behaving like stubborn children isn't going to help anyone.
If you think that's a harsh way to view it, welcome to the world of harsh realities. This isn't about causes to me, it's about people being able to live and have a semblance of a country left.
ArtieKat · M
@sascha Quite frankly, I don't give a flying fuck whether you take me seriously or not. My paternal grandfather was born in Moscow, my paternal grandmother on the border of Latvia and Russia; my maternal grandmother in Odessa. Other ancestors were from near Krakow in Poland. Your St Petersburg trolling opinions are [expletive deleted]
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