76% of Brits support an immediate ceasefire in Gaza
Despite the leaders of both major parties supporting the invasion and almost none of our media called for a ceasefire.
41-45, M
This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
Ontheroad · M
I can't speak to the veracity of your claim, but I can speak to the ridiculousness of the thought that a simple ceasefire will solve anything.
Hamas has to be rooted out and destroyed, or they, and the other terrorist groups in the region, have to agree to lay down their arms.
Otherwise, a ceasefire is, for Israel, suicide.
Hamas has to be rooted out and destroyed, or they, and the other terrorist groups in the region, have to agree to lay down their arms.
Otherwise, a ceasefire is, for Israel, suicide.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Ontheroad You can Google the veracity of muly claim and easily.
A ceasefire won't provide a long term solution to this conflict but it could provide a pause to negotiate one. It would also save hundreds of thousands.
A ceasefire suicide for Israel? I'd argue that their security is weakened by the current actions. It increases the likelihood of other Arab slnations getting involved and also terrorist attacks?
Do Palestinians get security?
A ceasefire won't provide a long term solution to this conflict but it could provide a pause to negotiate one. It would also save hundreds of thousands.
A ceasefire suicide for Israel? I'd argue that their security is weakened by the current actions. It increases the likelihood of other Arab slnations getting involved and also terrorist attacks?
Do Palestinians get security?
Ontheroad · M
@Burnley123 It could lead to a solution? Yeah, no, not unless Hamas changes its tactics and lays down its weapons.
I hate that the Palestinians are caught in the crossfire, but I know the realities of this mess and it's not going to be one bit better with a temporary ceasefire... unless it is on the condition that both sides will faithfully negotiate for an equitable 2 State solution.
And part of that negotiation has to be that Hamas disbands and a new PA be put in place.
Other Arab nations are already involved. In fact, the other Arab nations, including but not limited to Iran and Turkey, are already involved. They support and fund terrorists, specifically, but again not limited to, Hamas.
I hate that the Palestinians are caught in the crossfire, but I know the realities of this mess and it's not going to be one bit better with a temporary ceasefire... unless it is on the condition that both sides will faithfully negotiate for an equitable 2 State solution.
And part of that negotiation has to be that Hamas disbands and a new PA be put in place.
Other Arab nations are already involved. In fact, the other Arab nations, including but not limited to Iran and Turkey, are already involved. They support and fund terrorists, specifically, but again not limited to, Hamas.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Ontheroad I know about the other nations but it could escalate further. On that, I doubt we disagree.
Asking Hamas to lay down it's weapons? Should the IDF do likewise, given that it's killed far more people?
The IRA did agree to do this as part of the Good Friday agreement but only after a settlement was reached that was genuinely fair and that the Irish republican community could trust.
In an active conflict, you can't ask one side (the weaker side) to lay down it's weapons when they are about to be invaded. This also assumes that Israel would stop it's invasion and also retract West Bank settlements to make a two- state solution viable. Neither of those things are anywhere near on the cards.
If a ceasefire was imposed on Israel by the west threatening to withdraw support, then we could begin a negotiation process that led to this. Otherwise, it's not at all viable.
Asking Hamas to lay down it's weapons? Should the IDF do likewise, given that it's killed far more people?
The IRA did agree to do this as part of the Good Friday agreement but only after a settlement was reached that was genuinely fair and that the Irish republican community could trust.
In an active conflict, you can't ask one side (the weaker side) to lay down it's weapons when they are about to be invaded. This also assumes that Israel would stop it's invasion and also retract West Bank settlements to make a two- state solution viable. Neither of those things are anywhere near on the cards.
If a ceasefire was imposed on Israel by the west threatening to withdraw support, then we could begin a negotiation process that led to this. Otherwise, it's not at all viable.
Ontheroad · M
@Burnley123 Yes, it could widen, but Israel cannot let Hamas off... not if they can't get them to negotiate in good faith before any ceasefire.
I said both sides had to faithfully come together and both sides will have to be ready to give up on something to get the job done.
The West can try to negotiate a ceasefire but it will not stop supporting Israel. That isn't going to happen.
I said both sides had to faithfully come together and both sides will have to be ready to give up on something to get the job done.
The West can try to negotiate a ceasefire but it will not stop supporting Israel. That isn't going to happen.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Ontheroad It's not and that is a problem. The West isn't agnostic in the way that Blair's labour govt kind of was.
Israel also has all the power and support for its actions from the west. Why would it negotiate right now? I believe, based on current actions, that the Netanyahu govt wants all Palestinians gone from Gaza. Given that they don't value Palestinian life at all, that would be one way if ending Hamas. Two million people will be relocated or killed, if they get that way.
Yes, there is plenty of fault on both sides but the power dynamics are so far from equal that it's ridiculous and that is why I think so many well meaning people have the wrong line
Israel also has all the power and support for its actions from the west. Why would it negotiate right now? I believe, based on current actions, that the Netanyahu govt wants all Palestinians gone from Gaza. Given that they don't value Palestinian life at all, that would be one way if ending Hamas. Two million people will be relocated or killed, if they get that way.
Yes, there is plenty of fault on both sides but the power dynamics are so far from equal that it's ridiculous and that is why I think so many well meaning people have the wrong line
Ontheroad · M
@Burnley123 At the moment (and for a great many years), Netanyahu and his cronies are the problem.
Both sides (the civilians) want peace, but those in power aren't ready to do what needs to be done to make peace. It's really that simple.
I do think there will be a reckoning for Netanyahu, but it's not coming today. Once he is out of office, peace is possible... given that Hamas truly wants peace, which I don't think is a reality.
Of course, the is a power imbalance, but 99% of the time there is a power imbalance in these situations. However, it does not necessarily follow that the stronger side is at fault.
This current mess was and is all on Hamas.
Both sides (the civilians) want peace, but those in power aren't ready to do what needs to be done to make peace. It's really that simple.
I do think there will be a reckoning for Netanyahu, but it's not coming today. Once he is out of office, peace is possible... given that Hamas truly wants peace, which I don't think is a reality.
Of course, the is a power imbalance, but 99% of the time there is a power imbalance in these situations. However, it does not necessarily follow that the stronger side is at fault.
This current mess was and is all on Hamas.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Ontheroad The current mess is all on both sides. Many hundreds of Palestinian civilians have been killed by the IDF in just the last few years. Gaza is an open air prison. Hamas targeting civilians as well.
I didn't bring up the power imbalance to say that it's all Israel's fault but to illustrate that it's a problem with finding a solution. When one side has all the military power and western backing, it's not incentivised to compromise at all.
Netanyahu will have a reconning but that will be after a humanitarian catastrophe, unless a ceasefire happens soon.
I am realistic and I know that this probably won't happen.
I didn't bring up the power imbalance to say that it's all Israel's fault but to illustrate that it's a problem with finding a solution. When one side has all the military power and western backing, it's not incentivised to compromise at all.
Netanyahu will have a reconning but that will be after a humanitarian catastrophe, unless a ceasefire happens soon.
I am realistic and I know that this probably won't happen.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
@Ontheroad [quote]Other Arab nations are already involved. In fact, the other Arab nations, including but not limited to Iran and Turkey[/quote]
Turks and Iranians aren't Arabs. Their languages, history and culture aren't in the same family as Arabs who are Semitic.
Turks and Iranians aren't Arabs. Their languages, history and culture aren't in the same family as Arabs who are Semitic.
milkymum1 · 31-35, F
@Ontheroad You can enver ever defeat an organisation like Hamas all it will do is push members into splinter groups who will be even worse.
We haven't leant anything from ISIS
even the IRA, Ulster Unionist people had to sit down to stop all the bombings which has on the whole been successful but even then a small part of the members didn't agree and broke off to form a splinter group
The ONLY way this will end is to treat both countries the same and stop siding Israel as being innocent since the agreement with Israel and the PLO Israel has slowly taken land built housing settlements on disrupted land and all been allowed to happen
Since the mid 60 over 1 million Palestinians have been arrested some for just using a Jewish Toilet, Currently Israel are holding (most without a trial) over 5000 Men, Women and Children of whom will be mistreated
Any Nation has breaking point and this was it
Also it also seems very strange that there's no footage from the music festival other than a few odd shaky mobile footage, where were the troops by the boorder? was this a case that benjamin netanyahu being in so many problems domestically that what better reason for distraction and to get the Israelis behind him rather than against him was to let this happen
We haven't leant anything from ISIS
even the IRA, Ulster Unionist people had to sit down to stop all the bombings which has on the whole been successful but even then a small part of the members didn't agree and broke off to form a splinter group
The ONLY way this will end is to treat both countries the same and stop siding Israel as being innocent since the agreement with Israel and the PLO Israel has slowly taken land built housing settlements on disrupted land and all been allowed to happen
Since the mid 60 over 1 million Palestinians have been arrested some for just using a Jewish Toilet, Currently Israel are holding (most without a trial) over 5000 Men, Women and Children of whom will be mistreated
Any Nation has breaking point and this was it
Also it also seems very strange that there's no footage from the music festival other than a few odd shaky mobile footage, where were the troops by the boorder? was this a case that benjamin netanyahu being in so many problems domestically that what better reason for distraction and to get the Israelis behind him rather than against him was to let this happen
