Note: I never delete comments, but on this specific post I keep deleting comments because all pro Israeli comments reached a point where they started to disgust me🤢, justifying genocide.
“Jews were there first “ Is a wrong statement. Historically, the first inhabitants of the land were the canaanites. Abraham was born in whats today known as Iraq and THEN he moved to Canaan (aka Palestine) and had his decedents aka the Jews. And the Palestinians are the decedents of these same canaanites or and Jewish tribes + According to all the abrahamic religions including Islam, the word “Israel “ Refers to prophet Jacob and the “people of Israel” Refers to the sons And decedents of prophet Jacob, and that includes Judah Joseph and Benjamin etc.. so basically it’s a “bloodline” not a country or a religion. It never was and never will be. that blood runs through many people even today Who live across the world and embrace different religions , and some may even be atheists and some don’t even know that this blood runs through them. Even prophet Mohammed is the seed of prophet Abraham. And some Muslims today are decedents of prophet Abraham esp Ishmael or Jacob. So the Zionist’s who say “this land originally belongs to us and the Jews “ Are very illogical. For three reasons , god is not a real estate agent , it’s a bloodline not a faith, And we all know it belongs to the canaanites. + Not all Jews who follow Judaism are by blood Israeli and vice versa. + Palestine before The Zionist invasion Was an established peaceful country With people of different dreams and even religions living right next to each other in harmony. The Muslim Palestinians even welcomed the Jews running away from the west and Holocaust into their homes and shared their homes. Even dogs don’t bite the hand that helps them.
It’s a “group” of European Jews who lived around the world in official countries one day out of greed and a deluded thought wanted their own fantasy land and to them the “only” sacrifice was a bloodshed in the Middle East... Zionists Israelis in order to steal the land have done a mascare/genocide that killed “more “ than the third of the Palestinian population and kicked millions out of the land and the remaining until today still get killed ,bombed them while they’re worshiping, kicked out of their homes , and treated like slaves if not worse under an illusion and a delusion. It happens until this day and everyday !! The Zionists keep installing the poisonous idea of Palestinian lives to be cheap into their kids brains , and therefore the Palestinians keep living a very unjust and terrible lives under the evil racist government.
And then I see posts that say “Palestinians should stop fighting “ and “hope there is going to be peace in Israel “ When The main reason of their invasion Was to make it a Jewish state where they have the upper power forever. They have done so many racial and religious cleansing and to them anyone who is not a Jew/Israeli could never have the same rights ! And you still somehow believe it could all be just normal and fair one day ? Millions of Palestinians today are homeless or live around the world and away from their family because of their evil doing. Some haven’t even seen their own mother in so many years.. Real peace and justice could only be restored once it’s Palestine again and things go back to how it all was. No religion , beliefs , morals , and anyone with a drop of humanity in their hearts Could side with “Israel “ A group who have kicked original inhabitants out of their homes and killed babies kids and women and believe it was the right thing to do and “always” will be and all under a false illogical deluded belief that even Judaism doesn’t support as Jews outside of Israel and agonist Zionists have explained.
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[quote]You are blaming the weak for defending their land and wanting their rights But not the evil who have kicked original inhabitants out of their homes and killed babies kids and women and believe it was the right thing to do and always will be.[/quote]
So, one side is totally radicalised and are totally okay with extremism. But the other side has no radical elements at all and they all want the same peacefull sollution. ... I think you should change your media diet.
@Kwek00 I don’t think I should change anything, the Zionists “already” lived in countries around the world but they decided to leave these countries and go all the way to the Middle East and steal a land from millions of people killing them with no mercy under an illogical and deluded belief Which I explained in the beginning of my post. Did the Palestines roam the world looking for Jews to kill and degrade ? Nope. Did a group of Jews come to Palestine becoming Zionists and started making Palestinian lives hell and taking their every right ? Yes
@Kwek00 aww are you mad again? Maybe if you want people to read your posts as you want them understood, try actually writing with some coherency.
Furthermore, I love the use of triggered, so you think you're an edgy dudebro now? Btw you're the one that just lost your temper, that actually makes you the triggered one.
@basilfawlty89 That's true... I wonder why you engage with all the worthless opinions Basil. It's time to say all the stupid people that don't understand you goodbye, and go back to the friends who believe that Anarchism during a civil war happened for all 8 milion catalonians. And that 2 niche examples of communes living in the jungle are a great example of how society should be run. You have fun with the guys okay. Be good out there.
@Kwek00 yes, we should instead look at the wonders of centrism that bring us homelessness, starvation, third world colonisation and income inequality. That, to Kwek's limit of imagination is the pinnacle and ideal of human development.
@basilfawlty89 You are talking to the wrong person, because that's not what I vote for. I'm just taking human beings for what they are right now. You are creating an idealised version of human beings and let them play out a fantasy narrative where all the issues will dissapear if everyone just acts like you wish them to act. At the heart of your idea, there is nothing more then a little egocentric dictator telling everyone else exactly how they should be behaving. That's why these higly idealised versions of radicals end up like they do. It's like kid playing with this kind of toy:
and it has a squared shape figure but it wants to push it down the star shaped hole. It doesn't work, but the kid thinks it can do it anyway and thus it will result to force out of pure frustration.
@Kwek00 cute, that's am excellent strawman you constructed. Problem is under Anarchism there is no leader, there is no hierarchy, it works on direct democracy with consensus decision making.
So your entire screed above is actually quite useless.
This of course is coming from the elegant debater with erudite wit that somehow can't state is opinion in a succinct way.
@basilfawlty89 I guess you don't know what a strawman is either. Fuck, can't read, can't come up with good examples and can't use words right. Good job, the boys are going to love you. You should go man... run for the jungle, live the woods.
This concept that there is no leader, that's great in theory. In practise? Well, not going to happen. Because when things turn sour, people tend to look for people that can help out. And leadership will manifest itself accordingly. That's exactly what I'm talking about, this idea that you have these idealised version manifest itself in reality on a big scale just don't happen. And leadership can just come from out of nowhere, if a group feels attracted to the ideas of a clique or person they will devote themselves to this clique of person until they are tired of it. It has been happening for centuries now, even the most anarchistic tribes have some old fart that in times of need they can gather around and learn from his experience in the hope to get out of the crap they found themselves in.
@Kwek00 citation needed for your slippery slope argument. If people naturally just gravitated to a big leader in times of trouble, we'd be back to an absolute monarchy during the pandemic.
People can make decisions themselves. Now perhaps you're a dense little man and need people to decide your life for you, that's sad, you have my sympathies. However the rest of us can pretty much easily make decisions on what's best for us individually and can work together as a group for what's good for the group.
Also, you did make a strawman. You claimed I want or am some wannabe dictator, when the model I want effectively prevents dictatorship from ever occurring again.
@basilfawlty89 No, it doesn't. Because leadership doesn't mean monarchy. It can be a wise man or just a charismatic type that enough people of the community follow. You can find charismatic leaders littered all over history.
And hierarchy works, it's effecient, it gets things done. That's why political parties but also certain political ideologies go towards olicharchical models. Because olicharchy wins elections and strong hyrarchies have a higher chance of taking facing issues. No militairy force has gotten great successes without hierarchy and every anarchistic party that didn't organise themselves in an olicharchical way has ever won elections. Because anarchists, from left to right just suck at organising because they don't believe in it and thus they don't advance in power and can't keep a society together on big scale for a long periode of time. For a good study on this that is still cited today, read Robert Michels: "Political Parties: A Sociological Study of the Oligarchical Tendencies of Modern Democracy" written in 1911. Or you can pretty much read annything written on the subject of elitism in the beginning of the 20th century, since it was a hot toppic from left to right. There is a reason why Lennin reinvented a democratic concept like socialism to a vanguard elitist parties. Because the man understood that if you want to do this radical thing, you need to have hierarchy even though it's not super compatible with his endgoal.
People can make descisions themselves... that's great. Isn't that what we are doing in todays world? Making descisions by ourselves? And yet the anarchistic pipe dream doesn't manifest itself except in the minds of people that are hooked on romantics and idealistic visions of grandeur.
No it's not a strawman. A strawman is when I cojure up an argument and pretend that it's yours. But I didn't do that, what I did is tell you what is at the root of your thinking, it's not your argument because you clearly aren't seeing it. You still believe in this anarchistic idea where there is no leadership. And you are telling others to behave just like that and make this drastic change in their thinking and their being. Probably, because this is debatable, even changing their natural instincts to live in this society that you believe is going to be so much better. But at the end of the day, it's just you telling how people should behave. Even if anarchism would ever be a thing, it will be implemented and propagated by a clique that engages in politics and will by themselves function as leaders. It's an elitist group that tells other people what is best for them and it's this group that will forge society, because you'll never be able to catch everyone in this world view. And those that happen to live in the area where this small group will manifest their dream, will just have to go along or eventually be pestered out of the region because they aren't compatible and doing things that are not going with the doctrine. Because every ideology has an inherit character of "us" and "them" and people that don't want to live according to the new norms will be perceived as "them" and be seen as a thread to the new ideal.
@Kwek00 a bunch of supposition that isn't back up by the realities of what happened in Anarchist and Libertarian Socialist societies.
In Spain it wasn't organised by a clique, and Anarchists don't engage in political parties, bit you're prattling on about them.
I know how important it is for your ego to think you're right, the smartest person and incapable of behaving in a fallacious manner, so I'll sign off from this conversation as you don't even grasp the basics of Anarchism. It's boring me.
