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My problem with Christianity

My problem with Christianity is the concept of hell as a part of it's belief system. The fact that you can abandon all sense of logic and reasoning any sense of morality simply on the basis of what is believed to be a so-called God is absolute stupidity. What would otherwise be considered evil is somehow acceptable if done by a so-called perfect God.
TRLGhere4 · 13-15, F
Going to hell means depating from God. Where there is no God, there is no good at all. Look at our world, it is bad, however there is still good. Something that can prove this is that if you know what's bad, you obviously know what's good. You had to see good to know what's bad. In hell, there in no good at all, because there is no God, who is God. The reason there is suffering is because people there are departed from God. This means: hell=only suffering, only suffering=only bad, only bad=no good at all, and no good at all=no God anywhere. In this world, it's 50/50. Some people have God in their hearts, therefore since good is comming from God, there is good comming from that person. A person who doesn't have God in their heart is the opposite. In Heaven, there is only God. Since there is only God, there is only good. However, as I said, hell is departing from God. Only departing. So since there is no God AT ALL, there is no good at all.
Back to the evil-good in the world now. I explained, but I'd like to add something more. Evil doesn't come from God. It comes from devil tempting us plus making us sin. I explained people doing good/bad(I'm aware some people don't belive and still do good things). Still, you can't consider that there's no good at all in this world if you know what's evil. You need to know one thing to know the opposite of it(for example big and small). God does allow evil, however it's for a specific reason and He's still not the one who's doing it and making it happen.
Again, hell is pure evil, because there's no God AT ALL, Heaven is pure good because there is God, pure good. And the world itself isn't departed from God like for hell, it still isn't like Heaven either.
Hopefully you understood, if not, feel free to ask
Peaceandnamaste · 26-30, F
@TRLGhere4 if "god" is good then why did your god create methane gas?
SW-User
@Peaceandnamaste Well, the Bible actually says in plain black and white:-

[i]I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.[/i]

(Isaiah 45:7)

But some tend to pick and choose from the Good Book, building up their own particular theologies of doom and gloom.
TRLGhere4 · 13-15, F
@Peaceandnamaste I'm really sorry but I don't really understand your question (english is not my first language)
Nvm, I think I understood
God created everything for a reason. We may not know the excat, specific reason why is that, but there is a reason that He knows, and we know that it's His plan(as a part of the reason behind a creation)
Like for example we can question why did He make humans aswell, but it's something He knows because it's His plan for it to exist

Still, I might've misunderstood your question so I'm really sorry in case I did
SW-User
Here is the Eastern Orthodox theologian David Bentley Hart speaking in his book on Universalism "That All Shall Be Saved". His book is deeply biblical. Mr Hart knows the original Greek in which the New Testament was written so well that he has published his very own translation. In another place I have quoted Mr Hart's argument based fully upon St Paul's "Letter to the Romans'. So far those on this forum who insist upon the eventual eternal/perpetual torment of those who do not share their faith have refused to engage in any debate, to even take a look at the various books I have cited in support of Universalism.They rest supreme in their own personal "truth".

One such simply resorts to posting infantile emoji's expressing derision to my posts on the subject, as if such is any substitute for arguments based upon the Bible itself.

Anyway, Mr Hart:-

[i]In truth, the notion of eternal torment is so unquestionably, resplendently warped and irrational that every defense of it ever made, throughout the whole of Christian history, has been a bad one. We may deceive ourselves that we have heard good arguments in its favor, but only because we have already made the existential decision to believe in hell’s eternity no matter what—or, really, because that decision was made for us before we were old enough to think for ourselves. Even many otherwise competent philosophers have, under the impulse of faith, convinced themselves and others of the solvency of arguments that, viewed dispassionately, scarcely rise to the level of pious gibberish. It has always all been a mirage. So, if one can make oneself retract that initial surrender to the abysmally ludicrous, even for only a moment, one will discover that all apologetics for the infernalist orthodoxy consist in claims that no truly rational person should take seriously. Every one of them is an exercise in self-delusion, self-hypnosis, pacification of the conscience, stupefaction of the moral intelligence—and nothing else.
[/i]
And this right here folks is what happens when we don't show people the seriousness of sin.
SW-User
@SDavis I'm interested in Universalism as my own Pure Land Faith is explicitly Universalist.

If you look back at our discussion you will see why I spoke of it in a Christian context.

Thanks
SDavis · 56-60, F
@SW-User.

Universalist / Universalism is an off shoot of Protestants which is a Christian denomination -

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Universalism#:~:text=The%20Universalists%20believed%20it%20impossible,the%20rest%20to%20eternal%20punishment.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/universalist

Pure land Faith are you speaking of Buddhism?

Are you doing comparisons -Buddhism to Christianity.

From my studies there are several basic similarities in all religions. There are several basic beliefs in all religions. And there are at least one or more basic truths in all religions.
SW-User
@SDavis Yes, Buddhism - a Western term. The West likes its "isms".

Simply put and leaving out the Tibetan varieties, there are two main branches. Theravada, which is the more conservative, based more upon the historical Buddha and his recorded words. Known also as the Southern School.

And Mahayana, the more liberal and progressive, where the Buddha in effect becomes a "cosmic principle" and the historical Buddha slips well into the background. Known also as the Northern School.

Pure Land Buddhism (also known as Shin Buddhism) is part of the Mahayana group. It arose in Japan around the 13th century, although its actual origins remain the subject of much study and investigation. It is the so called "Buddhism of Faith'.

Yes, I am very much interested in "comparisons", in interfaith dialogue.

This is not said to prevoke, but Christianity claims to be based upon historical events of time and space. I have found that such a claim is unsustainable. When the Bible is put under the same microscope as all other ancient documents/manuscripts; when the life of Jesus is put under the same scrutiny as that of any other ancient "holy man" or prophet, the result is simply that no Conservative/Orthodox faith can be held with any credibility.

Pure Land Buddhism is obviously totally mythopoetic, and claims nothing else. Therefore its "path" can be appropriated without the constant thought of "can I really believe this happened?" (with the answer being "no") And basically that is why the majority of educated westerners can no longer find any credibility in a God "up there" who incarnates on earth to die on a cross for the sins of the World. It is mythic, even pagan in origin. Yet the themes dealt with and embraced by this story are also the themes of all our Worlds major Faiths, and can be explored there without that constant question of "can I really believe THAT?"

If others can believe it (ignoring the vast bulk of the scholarship of the past 200 years) then so be it.

Thanks
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SW-User
While I'm here - before heading off for grandchildren chores (bless their little hearts) - a further word from Mr Hart:-

[i]....suffice it here to say that there are moments when I find it difficult not to think that Christianity’s chief distinction among theistic creeds is that it alone openly enjoins its adherents to be morally superior to the God they worship.[/i]

And as said by another on the same subject....

[i]Now, it is notorious that popular ideas of God’s character are of a far lower moral standard than that by which we discern saintliness in men. The saint forgives “until seventy times seven” if anyone sins against him, but by many accounts the Lord does not forgive at all unless the offender grovels before him in an act of sincere contrition.
[/i]

I suspect that many of our Vulture Evangelists here actual lack a sense of humour; certainly the idea of laughing at themselves has possibly never occurred to them. There is, in a strange way, a sort of humour in Grace.
G0ddess · F
This is all thanks to the theological seminary….i mean cemetery which has ruined the esoteric nature of the Bible and replaced it with fire and brimstone doctrine to keep the masses in check begging for their prayers to be fulfilled instead of learning how to manifest their desires
SW-User
@G0ddess Your post reminded me of a short passage in a book by the Eastern Orthodox theologian David Bentley Hart:-

[i]Really, on the whole, Christians rarely pay particularly close attention to what the Bible actually says, for the simple reason that the texts defy synthesis in a canon of exact doctrines, and yet most Christians rely on doctrinal canons. Theologians are often the most cavalier in their treatment of the texts, chiefly because their first loyalty is usually to the grand systems of belief they have devised or adopted; but the Bible is not a system. A very great deal of theological tradition consists therefore in explaining away those aspects of scripture that contradict the finely wrought structure of this or that orthodoxy.[/i]
G0ddess · F
@SW-User that’s very insightful, how would they ever pay close attention to any Biblical texts when they outsource their thinking to their pastor
SW-User
@G0ddess The quote comes from "That All Shall Be Saved".
That's every religion.
Peaceandnamaste · 26-30, F
@BohemianBoo you don't understand my struggle, my stepfather was like that and he made me suicidal.
@Peaceandnamaste You might have had gender dysphoria, which I sympathize with. I think gender affirming care should be free, like all healthcare. I just don't think there's evidence of past lives here.
Peaceandnamaste · 26-30, F
@BohemianBoo my stepfather was transphobic and didn't believe in reincarnation and he called me stupid and verbally abused me and physically abused me too for it, I have autism so this is my interest and helped me through life.
SDavis · 56-60, F
Is it evil for a judge in a court of law to sentence someone to death because of a sin they committed.

Believing in God is an absolute stupidity to you. There are over 2 billion absolutely stupid Christians as far as you are concerned. Christians have education, degrees, hold High positions and offices - but I guess you're saying only their belief in God makes them stupid.
SW-User
@SDavis You ask:-

[i]Is it evil for a judge in a court of law to sentence someone to death because of a sin they committed.[/i]

This is a poor analogy for the God of the Bible.

To begin with, according to some theologies, God actually sees sin in new born babies. Is being born a sin?

God IS Love. Build a theology upon that.
SDavis · 56-60, F
@SW-User no it's not a poor analogy - but to each his own truth is truth.

If you heard someone say God sees sin in newborn babies either they worded it wrong or your understanding is in error. God sees the nature of sin in newborn babies/humans. - It is the nature of the majority human to disobey. It is the nature of man to think self and what is prevalent for them.

Are you telling me to build a theology on God is love - ha ha. God loves that's where his Mercy comes in. God also has anger and wrath. So for anyone to try to build a theology on God is love will run into many problems.
SW-User
@SDavis I explained why it was poor. What I explained WAS and IS very mainstream Christian theology, from the time of St Augustine.

And no. The only explicit identity ever given to God in the Bible is Love. God IS Love. It never speaks of any other identity as such.

So laugh all you like.

Universalism is a theology built upon the words "God IS Love". And if we truly believe in salvation [b]purely by grace as the causal basis[/b], then Universalism is the ONLY feasible option.

God IS Love. Salvation purely by Grace. Logically = Universalism. And there are many biblical.passages in full support for any wishing to look at the evidence.

Thanks
Baremine · 70-79, C
The things of God are foolishness to those that don't believe. Are you gambling with your soul.
Carazaa · F
We deserve hell because we are [b]sinners.[/b] But Jesus took our punishment on his own shoulders! The world is celebrating what he did for us today!
🌟[c=A69800][big]Merry Christmas!🌟
[/big][/c]
Carazaa · F
@SW-User Happy Christmas to you!
Carazaa · F
@Emosaur repent and be saved!
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The obvious logical flaw is that if God is the creator, alpha and omega, etc then it created evil as well as love. Which doesn't makes sense especially in context to the Bible.
JovialMoose · 46-50, M
So... no concerns about the concept of heaven?
JovialMoose · 46-50, M
@SW-User Someone finally understands me!
SW-User
@JovialMoose Ah ha!

😀
SW-User
@JovialMoose Heaven and Hell in the popular Christian sense amount to the same thing.

Anyway, there is a thread in the Beliefs section, "What or Who is the Self" if you are interested.
Who cares what you think then.
SW-User
@James25 There is a sense in which we need to become childlike. But I agree with you in as much as the Fundamentalist mindset, with its convoluted theologies, is very far from being childlike in the sense that Christ spoke of.
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@Emosaur I’d wish you happy Christmas. But I forgot you don’t believe in it, so I can’t.
SW-User
Hi, I have posted much on Universalism. Look it up.

Thanks
My Dad used to say, what kind of loving father throws their children into a fire.
Carazaa · F
@NativePortlander1970 God creates everything! Even punishment. Your dad did not teach you that we are all deserving punishment because we all sin! We all need to repent!
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This message was deleted by its author.
SW-User
@ChadJNSD Well, I suppose it takes all sorts.

😀
Baremine · 70-79, C
@ChadJNSD I feel sorry for you because of how you will spend eternity. Show some respect for your creator even though you are to blind to see Him.

 
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