Ever heard of the sudarium of Manoppello

@BritishFailedAesthetic Actually it would appear as though one was place on top of the other as the blood in both is type AB and the blood stains match exactly as does the two images of the face. (shroud and sudarium) Juxtipose one on the other and they are identical. Given that we can not duplicate either of them and the dating is about 2000 years old..... Amazing how both images coincide with the Gospel accounts of the Passion of Jesus Christ.

@hippyjoe1955 You say you're a anabaptist? 🕵 You have alot of Orthodox sympathies 🕵

@BritishFailedAesthetic I am looking at evidence. That is not religious that is science. What I find interesting is the Bible talks about the burial cloth and the cloth placed over the head. The disciples saw them one believed a miracle and the other wasn't sure. What did they see. Could it be that they held the sudarium up to the light as it came through the entrance to the tomb and saw and image of the face of the risen Christ?

@hippyjoe1955 We can encounter Christ by believing on the Gospel. In this life we will almost certainly never know what he looks like, the Bible doesn't even give a hint as to his physical appearance.

@BritishFailedAesthetic So God can't leave us a selfie?

@hippyjoe1955 Why would Christ (God the Son need to?) We can experience him in this life and will see him in eternity. That's good enough for me!

@BritishFailedAesthetic And why not? Is there any great harm in seeing a 2000 year old 'picture' of Jesus? Of course you don't worship it nor do you ascribe an magical spells to it. But that doesn't mean it can't bring the completed work of Christ to reality in your own mind. Many years ago I was full of the myths of Jesus and the apostles and was preaching it on a regular basis. Then it struck me. "What if it is TRUE?" In those images we see what Jesus went through. There are over 600 wounds on that Man's body. The crown of thorns was not just a laurel wreath wrapped around His head, By analysing the blood we can determine that the Man was pretty much dead from the flogging He received as there is indication of kidney failure from blood loss. We can see the scrape marks on the right shoulder from Him carrying His cross. There is scrapes on His knees and His nose from when He collapsed while carrying the cross. Given that level of demonic beating He endured yet He prayed for those driving nails through His hands and feet "Father forgive them" The blood also shows signs of dehydration and as He hung on the cross He said "I thirst". Yet with all that beating and suffering and weakness He cried out in a LOUD Voice and yielded up His Spirit. His death so unusual his executioner said "Surely this Man was the Son of God". We have physical evidence of that terrible day and we have physical evidence of the wondrous event HE IS RISEN!

@hippyjoe1955 I don't need fakes like the shroud of turin, etc to KNOW he is risen!

@BritishFailedAesthetic Prove it is fake. All the science shows it to be genuine. Even the atheist scientists who have examined it say that it dates from the 1 century. The pollen and sand show it was from Jerusalem. The image is a three dimensional picture that can not be duplicated even with our most advanced technology as there is no paint or dye on the cloth.

@hippyjoe1955 Believe what you want.

I don't need evidence like that to know the faith is real.

You are speaking with a 'Banner Of Truth' reader here 🤭

@BritishFailedAesthetic I believed before I had evidence too but later seeing evidence later does not take away from the belief that came before the evidence. It simply augments it. Open your mind and rejoice. Your belief is not in vain!

@hippyjoe1955 I know it's not!

@BritishFailedAesthetic Then accept the evidence beyond your subjective experience.

@hippyjoe1955 The evidence is God's inerrant, very word!

@BritishFailedAesthetic Until someone says that it is a pack of lies and you can't answer for it. Your paper Pope has bred a lot of heresy in its day. Dispensationalism being the big one that we Christians must strive against today.

@BritishFailedAesthetic Let me put it this way. Do I believe in the Death and Resurrection of Christ because the Bible says it happened or because it actually happened?

@hippyjoe1955 Paper pope?

Dispensationalism isn't a heresy unless they say Jews are automatically saved, but as you know I'm a replacement theoloigist. Like you actually.


Both.

@BritishFailedAesthetic As do I believe. However if I find evidence outside the Bible about the death and resurrection I have no issue with it and will study it to gain insight. I also believe that dispensationalism at its core is purely heretical There is nothing about it that is good for Christianity. Between denying much of the New Covenant to hold on to the old to worrying about end times incessantly to setting up the idol called Israel. I was at a dispensationalist church not long ago. It had the Starr of remphan on the pulpit much more prominently displayed than the cross.

@hippyjoe1955 The thing is you can get good dispensationalist teachers like Macarthur, he was a great teacher.

@BritishFailedAesthetic I make it a practice to never listen to dispensationalists and will never say they were great. He was a petty tyrant that ran his church with an iron fist. I found it funny how he used to proclaim that you MUST submit to civic authority. Then a long came COVID and that teaching was suddenly null and void because civic authority told him to shut down his church.

@hippyjoe1955 He wasn't a perfect man. You know, like the rest of us.

@BritishFailedAesthetic He wasn't perfect and I really didn't need his brand of dictatorship in my Christian understanding. There is an offshoot of his church here in town. My wife went to a women's conference and was shown the door when she quoted the Bible.

@hippyjoe1955 I don't know the context re your wife.

@BritishFailedAesthetic The passage my wife read was from the New Covenant. About 15 verses long. The teaching from the Bible didn't need any explanation nor did my wife offer any. She simply read what MacArthur's church didn't want to believe.

@hippyjoe1955 What about it? In regards to what?