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Christianity

In one or two posts I have referred to what I term "Jesusainity". This is not meant to have been disparaging in any essential way, although I must admit to being dismayed by those who insist upon "one way only" and who then cite the usual couple of verses from the New Testament that they consider closes the matter.

If anyone is interested - and I guess that most are not, either being non-religious in any way, or being an ardent "one wayer" convinced of their infallibility - then I would simply seek to explain.

There is Jesusainity and there is Christianity.

Relevant here is a form of debate, argumentation, discussion, more prevalent in the East than the West i.e. argument by relegation. Here opposing positions are treated not by refuting them, but by accepting them as true, but only true as a part of the full picture. Logically, it broadens the scope of discussion. Even if I am persuaded that another鈥檚 view is incorrect in some respect, it is nevertheless a real point of view and my theory of reality must be able to account for its existence. In effect the discussion involves not refuting the position of another but will be competing over which position can relegate which. And so, which is relegated? Jesusainity or Christianity?

Christianity simply says that the words (found in the most "spiritual" of the Gospels, St John) "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me" are the words of the Eternal Logos - as spoken of in the prelude to St John's Gospel.

Again, the "no other name" verse should be seen in the context of its historical proclamation, this in line with the Catholic Church's understanding of how we should approach and understand inspired scripture:-

[i]To search out the intention of the sacred writers, attention should be given, among other things, to "literary forms." For truth is set forth and expressed differently in texts which are variously historical, prophetic, poetic, or of other forms of discourse. The interpreter must investigate what meaning the sacred writer intended to express and actually expressed in particular circumstances by using contemporary literary forms in accordance with the situation of his own time and culture. For the correct understanding of what the sacred author wanted to assert, due attention must be paid to the customary and characteristic styles of feeling, speaking and narrating which prevailed at the time of the sacred writer, and to the patterns men normally employed at that period in their everyday dealings with one another[/i]. (Dei Verbum, III, 12, 2)

(Again, in this instance, as is said, "what is in a name"? "Jesus" is simply an anglicised form of the original Hebrew name)

Accepting all this, what do we have? Christianity expands beyond the theology of the Protestant Reform Tradition, which is time-conditioned, insular and in fact shut off from the whole world of our various Faith Traditions, enclosed within itself, the "only truth". Expands instead to embrace all movements of the Spirit (that "blows where it will") - which explains just why the fruits of the spirit.....

[i]The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.[/i]

.....can be seen throughout history, in various individuals, of all Faiths, and sometimes of none. The Lord knows his own, as is said!

Thomas Merton once said that we should never presume that Christ is in our own heart if we cannot also see Him and find Him in the hearts of others most remote from ourselves. I think this is true.

I guess I am quite "remote" to some here (especially to one who has blocked me......馃榾) being a non-theistic Buddhist of the Pure Land path. But we say:-

[i]My eyes being hindered by blind passions,
I cannot perceive the light that grasps me;
Yet the great compassion, without tiring,
Illumines me always
[/i]
(Shinran, from "Hymns of the Pure Land Masters", verse 95)

Which corresponds with the words of Julian of Norwich of the theistic Christian tradition:-

[i]If there be anywhere on earth a lover of God who is always kept safe, I know nothing of it, for it was not shown to me. But this was shown: that in falling and rising again we are always kept in that same precious love.
[/i]

I appreciate that there will be some who will continue to believe and insist that the God they worship turns His face away from those who - in their own time worn phrase - have not "accepted Jesus as their own personal Savior". Yet all I am saying here is that in Christianity, just how Christ is "accepted" can take infinite forms according to the almost infinite number of individual human beings.

The spirit blows where it will.

That is all. Make of it what you will.
CSGoodman56-60
Basic reply.

As to relegation, this reminds me of possible worlds semantics in western analytic philosophy; even as in a reductio ad absurdum, assuming the truth of an opposing statement, presupposing it for dialectic sake...extending an adverse view the "benefit of the doubt"; albeit not here to logically discard. To "relegate."

Something of this makes me think of "Go." The ancient game. Conceptually valid, this impression?

I suppose the issue I begin to see is, of course, to me, the Eastern "metaphysic" by nature is going be, lets say more, accommodating, and its aesthetic "pride", sense-percieved elegance, is just there, like as colors and geometry of an ever-spreading canvass whose form is... should one dare say? lest they find themselves "contained" inside a form a pattern a pastiche of a grandeur greater than they'd seen, accounted, for?

How do I compare the "biblical" worldview-- which I must for my purpose here take for granted? sans citation-- to this?

If this be labeled a "metaphysic" (which word i disdain inadequate) it is like unto...

... the matter of the Canvass, and its Painter, the Artist and his medium...

They are categorically distinct, The Creater: the created.

One Uncreated Being is Other and sensibly likened as the Father of all the other beings who are the offspring, and children, which He made by His choice to be a Family under His "roof"; this, not out of any need He had of them but just His desire, for a family.

For the Family He created the World, the heaven-earth, to populate its 2 realms: in the Heavens, the mighty spirits whom He made to govern the Mysteries and
Powers that are in the Heavens; these "High, Lofty Ones" He placed as Stars in the Heavens above the earthly realm to govern times, signs, and seasons in the earth for the sake of His children in the earth. His more lowly, yet Special, children, for whose purpose He made the whole World....

The Father will send a Son directly from Himself for the sake of his earthly children and He will be the Son who Finishes His Father's Plan for the whole World

because this Unique Son of the Father donning lowly flesh will be the Bridge who WILL connect highest Heavens to lowest depths of earth, IN and THROUGH His glorified body, and He will bring the children to the Father, the Father to His children, because the Son is buried in the earth to make The Way appear in it, which is from the Son going directly to the Father, and then the Family will live all together.

You must permit me my flourish my dramatization here, and excuse me for it, but this is what I was suggesting when saying I disdain such term as "metaphysic" wholly inadequate to describe the thrust the affect of what Christianity truly presents:

For you see, Christianity/the Bible itself begins and ends with Persons, concerns persons, makes sense of People, Family, Relationships

This concern with Family as shaping Reality is seen in early mankind in its linguistic foundation model being that of Royal Dynasties-- the ancient rubric and metaphor of the Household of the King and its Order-- that you find as far back embedding ancient man's writings about the gods and the world as we've gotten unearthed

The Truth conceptually winds up being a Person! if you permit the Bible its say on the matter...

Consequently, you will find the Bible regards esoteric metaphysic philosophic notions as vanity, mind-games men are susceptible to lionize, sophistry

And dangerous. Because I digress, but in the mythic drama and motifs of the Bible's history of the significant divine/earthly "Events" that lead up to the world as we inherited it since The Nations first began...

... well, there's a drama involving certain Persons-- the mighty spirits, the gods of the heavens which were set up there in their positions of power, influences, and capacities inside realms-- and a predilection to share with the children of earth certain Mysteries in the Heavens that are really Secrets taken out of context...

... lies, but ones which confer power, and tangible, too

Desirable to make one wise.
Obviously the understanding of Christianity advocated here answers some of the questions often put forward by many.

i.e. What about people who have been born and have died before the birth of Jesus?

What about those who have never heard of Jesus or been told about him.

Given the Christianity spoken of here (which is in fact quite mainstream) such questions have perfectly simple answers.

That the reality of Christ, as the Eternal Logos, through Whom [i]all things are made[/i] (St John's Gospel) encompasses the historical Incarnation, which lasted just 30 or so years and is now of the past, is also Eternal. That, as the Christian mystic Meister Eckhart has said:- "The Father is eternally giving birth to the Son".

Why would anyone be afraid of this? Of witnessing to it? That God's love is infinite within time and space?
Even Christianity as understood by many retains claims to be supremely unique.

While each of our World Faiths are unique - singular - Christianity seeks to claim a unique uniqueness!

Thus the world's Faiths are deemed to orbit the Christian Faith, rather than all our World's faiths, including Christianity, orbiting the Source, Reality-as-is, God.

It is a common insight that [i][b]every[/b] particular contains the Universal[/i]. That being so, Jesus contained the Universal. In that sense, [i]was God.[/i]

Alas, in seeking to claim that Jesus has a unique uniqueness, was a unique particular, Christianity can take a step that brings only confusion and totally unnecessary mystification. Not to mention the conflicts and crusades and wars (even between Christians) that have marred its history.
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@Max312 What on earth has that got to do with this thread?

Or do you think having a one-track mind is some sort of evidence of having the Spirit that blows where it will?
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@Max312 Well, OK, thanks. I simply could not see a connection.
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@jshm2 kiddo?

馃榾

Thanks for you contribution.
@jshm2 And just to add, your comment is irrelevant in the context of the purpose of this thread.

Irrespective of how the Christian Faith (of any description) came to be is not the subject I am addressing.

I merely note the complete silence of our "one way" friends.
Well, that is me done. Little interest, and I assume that having ignored this entire thread, the "one wayers" of Jesusainity will soon be testifying to that Faith elsewhere.

All the best to you all.

 
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