@NativeOregonian There’s a lot of injustice there. The idea was for two groups of people to co-exist, but settlers are encroaching on land set aside for the Palestinians, with impunity, then the latter are “terrorists” if they object. 😞
@bijouxbroussard Bullshit, Israel belongs to the Israelis, it is their ancestral homeland, the palestinians are the ones that are causing all the violence because they REFUSE peace. [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAuBc_cbXo0]
[i][/i]@NativeOregonian The British established a homeland for survivors of the Holocaust on land already occupied. The compromise was a shared land, Israel and Palestine. But settlers are being allowed to move onto lands that were allotted to the Palestinians, breaking those agreements.
Modern Israel doesn’t even treat all [i][b]Jewish[/b][/i] people equitably. Those of European and Russian descent are treated much differently than those from other parts of the world, like Beta Israel (the “Falashas”), who trace their lineage from Solomon and Sheba. Alice Walker (the writer) visited Israel in the 90s and said she was reminded of her childhood in the Jim Crow American South.
@SW-User I have numerous Friends offline that are from Israel, and they tell me all the time what is reported in the western news media is pure bullshit propaganda designed to sympathise for the palestinians.
@SW-User Then you have seen the violence there that is used against the Israelis, specially the randon knife attacks that happens all the time, attacks that are never reported outside Israel.
@NativeOregonian I have friends offline, too—some [b]Jewish[/b] who are fair-minded people, not biased against Palestinians. And some of them [b]have[/b] lived in Israel.
@bijouxbroussard The palestinians fire their missles into Israel from schools and hospitals, UN protected institutions, which prevents the IDF from destroying the missle enclaves from air strikes. They also use women and children as shields, as well as using them as their suicide vest bombers. You are hearing only bullshit propaganda.
@NativeOregonian Not all of it. I trust my sources. At one point Israel was found to be sterilizing Ethiopian Jewish women who had been brought there after the Falashas were airlifted in the 80s, during a famine. Someone who had family in Israel brought that to my attention. I’m not talking about the moronic cult here in the U.S. (Black Hebrew Israelite). I’m speaking of the people established as Jewish in East Africa for thousands of years. There was even a question of whether or not the “law of return” should apply to them.
@bijouxbroussard quoting you ... "but settlers are encroaching on land set aside for the Palestinians". Historically that is not true. When exactly was it "set aside"? Until 1967 those areas were Jordanian. After 1967 it was Israeli. If you're referring to the Oslo Accords , that was in 1993 , the settlements were there long before. Btw , before the Jordanians it was under British Mandate and before that it was part of the Ottoman Empire , so historically speaking "Palestine" as a state never existed.
[quote][b]Scholars believe the name “Palestine” originally comes from the word “Philistia,” which refers to the Philistines who occupied part of the region in the 12th century B.C.
Throughout history, Palestine has been ruled by numerous groups, including the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Fatimids, Seljuk Turks, Crusaders, Egyptians, Mamelukes and Islamists.
From about 1517 to 1917, the Ottoman Empire ruled much of the region.
When World War I ended in 1918, the British took control of Palestine. The League of Nations issued a British mandate for Palestine—a document that gave Britain the responsibility of establishing a Jewish national homeland in Palestine—which went into effect in 1923.
n 1947, the United Nations proposed a plan to partition Palestine into two sections: an independent Jewish state and an independent Arab state, with Jerusalem as internationalized territory.
Jewish leaders accepted the plan, but many Palestinian Arabs vehemently opposed it.
Arab groups argued that they represented the majority of the population in certain regions and should be granted more territory. They began to form volunteer armies throughout Palestine.
In May 1948, less than a year after the Partition of Palestine was introduced, Britain withdrew from Palestine and Israel became an independent state.
Estimates suggest between 700,000 and 900,000 Palestinians fled or were forced to leave their homes.
Almost immediately, war broke out between Jews and Arabs in the region. The 1948 Arab-Israeli War involved Israel and five Arab nations—Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Egypt and Lebanon.
This conflict marked the beginning of years of violent conflict between Arabs and Israelis. [/b][/quote]
@bijouxbroussard Don't you think that that timeline... should make you think twice before you engage in this conversation? Because it's kinda pretty difficult. You know that part where the Arab poppulation didn't agree, and then a joined coalition of outside arab nations attacked. It gets even more blurry from there.
This is one of those things, where there is so much feelings and disinformation from both sides, that even scholars have a hard time straightening out. There is just a lot of demonisation, false information out there. It kinda sucks if you as an outsider want to try to formulate a coherent opinion about it. But both sides [i](as nations)[/i] have some real blood on their hand, and both sides have been assholes in several diffrent moments in time. But you can't blame all the problems on Israel, since there were genious times that they reached out and try to normalise the situation. And the consequence was that things started to blow up because of radicals on the other side. Just like there were moments that palestinians invoked a reaction, and that reaction was far within the limits of what the outside community should tollerate. You should also try to figure out how manny times the Palestinian community actually held to anny agreement in this one? Because they are pretty frustrated, which also doesn't help anny long term sollution.
Now I'm just going back into the shadows, because this conflict is such a mess, that it's better to be ambiguous about it. The only reason why I got triggered was that independent article. I'm not sure how manny clicks it gets each year, but it randomly pops up in my feeds a lot. And at first I thought: man, this is some cwazy shit... but if you look into it, the thing is more marginal then it is. And it's mistakes that were made. It's not structural.
@Kwek00 I'm just relating what I've been taught was the truth; are you suggesting I have no right to ? Israel is not perfect, and and lot of Jewish people acknowledge that. Most of what has been explained to me offline has been by [b]both[/b] Jewish people and Palestinians who've either lived in the area at one point or have family who still does.
@bijouxbroussard I never said you didn't have the right too. Why do things always get so extreme so quickly when someone points out that it's better not to burn your fingers on this one. Yeah, well, since there are so much feelings concerning this toppic, and since both sides have a lot of members that believe they are right in their own way, it's pretty cool to hear out both sides. However, I would suggest reading up on people that study this instead of getting anekdotes, because as I said, information on this toppic is really really really blurry, and you don't want to pump your head full of even more subjective anekdotal ideas. But if these people substaniate it with really good sources, that's cool by me.
@Kwek00 I’ve actually tried to do both. But like in most things there’s sometimes a Western bias in the articles. People afraid of what they perceive as “foreign”.
@Kwek00 You seemed to assume I had relied on anecdotes over text. I was assuring you I’ve used both, but there [b]is[/b] a lot of bias. I included the part about the Arab resistance because to not would be denying the truth. But in many articles the Western narrative is “Israel good, Arab/Palestinians bad”. It’s much more complicated than that.
@bijouxbroussard Donald Trump is not "the west", thank you verry much. It's not even the entire country. He likes to talk for "the people", but "the people" leaves out a lot of people that live there.
