Richard65 · M
It's understandable to wish for something more, something beyond our ordinary existence. Science and modernity have offered answers to many things our ancestors couldn't understand so turned their minds to supernatural causes or spiritual influences. Anyone who says they have seen spirits or experienced supernatural phenomenon are talking purely subjectively. They might actually believe they saw or sensed something extraordinary, and, yes, there are real elements of the spectrum that exist but cannot be seen by humans (such as infrared). But to imagine there are supernatural spirits is just that - imagination. We crave something akin to a fairytale or a ghost story, just to make life seem more profound, more interesting - more MORE.
I'd suggest you might be denying yourself the myriad fascinating aspects of your life that ARE there and DO exist. You're just looking in the wrong places. You're seeking out one imaginary colour within an entire rainbow of real possibilities. I went for a walk in a local forest yesterday after reading that trees do actually communicate with one another through chemical interactions. That's not supernatural, that's scientific discovery. If a tree is infested with insects that threaten it, other trees transmit chemicals through their roots in order to help that tree rid itself of the infestation. Fungi effectively build entire communication networks right under your feet. This is extraordinary revelation, yet it's real and science exposed it and explained it. Look for the real, because real life is truly extraordinary if you can just see it. It's that reality that remains just out of sight for you. Not the supernatural.
I'd suggest you might be denying yourself the myriad fascinating aspects of your life that ARE there and DO exist. You're just looking in the wrong places. You're seeking out one imaginary colour within an entire rainbow of real possibilities. I went for a walk in a local forest yesterday after reading that trees do actually communicate with one another through chemical interactions. That's not supernatural, that's scientific discovery. If a tree is infested with insects that threaten it, other trees transmit chemicals through their roots in order to help that tree rid itself of the infestation. Fungi effectively build entire communication networks right under your feet. This is extraordinary revelation, yet it's real and science exposed it and explained it. Look for the real, because real life is truly extraordinary if you can just see it. It's that reality that remains just out of sight for you. Not the supernatural.
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@newjaninev2 What smug nonsense. This is how it goes.
When a person makes a claim, whether that be a positive one (ex. "God exists") or a negative one (ex. "God doesn't exist") it's incumbent upon that person to present his or her reasons for why that particular claim was made. Evidence is always helpful, because you're trying to convince another person, and so recounting a personal experience, for example, won't be enough.
However, when it comes to personal beliefs, and you're not really concerned with winning someone over to your point of view, just living the best life you can in the only way you know how, an event that affected you personally is usually far more convincing than any evidence that some self-proclaimed sceptic may come up with.
Whether you like it or not, that's the way most people (like around 96.7%) on Earth construct their worldview; i.e. they rely upon their intuition, past experiences, and what makes sense to them, and not any "evidence" that some smug atheist thinks will win them over. They don't care about that crap.
When a person makes a claim, whether that be a positive one (ex. "God exists") or a negative one (ex. "God doesn't exist") it's incumbent upon that person to present his or her reasons for why that particular claim was made. Evidence is always helpful, because you're trying to convince another person, and so recounting a personal experience, for example, won't be enough.
However, when it comes to personal beliefs, and you're not really concerned with winning someone over to your point of view, just living the best life you can in the only way you know how, an event that affected you personally is usually far more convincing than any evidence that some self-proclaimed sceptic may come up with.
Whether you like it or not, that's the way most people (like around 96.7%) on Earth construct their worldview; i.e. they rely upon their intuition, past experiences, and what makes sense to them, and not any "evidence" that some smug atheist thinks will win them over. They don't care about that crap.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@DLight
Why be concerned with convincing if you're not trying to win them over?
The motto of the Royal Society is Nullius in verba (Latin for 'take nobody's word for it')
...you're not really concerned with winning someone over to your point of view ... an event that affected you personally is usually far more convincing...
Why be concerned with convincing if you're not trying to win them over?
The motto of the Royal Society is Nullius in verba (Latin for 'take nobody's word for it')
@newjaninev2 I'm not. I don't care if we don't agree on whatever it is we do not agree on.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
In any case, I now believe that there is just so much more to reality than most of us will ever realise, and to simply dismiss that likelihood is nothing short of stupid and arrogant.
Just let me know, when you have evidence of these things that I dismiss so you can proof not only that those things excist but also that I'm stupid and arrogant. I'll appreciate it when that ever happens... but I won't hold my breath.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@turtle777rescuer Why does it take "courage" to believe something that doesn't have prove and isn't falsifiable?
... You understand that you are linking labels that are considered virtues like "courage", to behavior that you would NEVER EVER teach your children. EXCEPT for the godly exception that is based on nothing but bias 🤷♂.
These various ways, and the heart is open... it really happens a lot. Espescially in specific segments of the evangelical denominations. And yet, these people are still struggling with all the mixed messages that God gives to each subject... and the most reasonable explanation for this, is that they were really "couragous" to listen to their own gut feelings that they project unto "God" because that's what they were learned to do. I have to admit... it's way more exciting to classify my inner voice with the Lord then just being aware that I've been talking to myself.
... You understand that you are linking labels that are considered virtues like "courage", to behavior that you would NEVER EVER teach your children. EXCEPT for the godly exception that is based on nothing but bias 🤷♂.
These various ways, and the heart is open... it really happens a lot. Espescially in specific segments of the evangelical denominations. And yet, these people are still struggling with all the mixed messages that God gives to each subject... and the most reasonable explanation for this, is that they were really "couragous" to listen to their own gut feelings that they project unto "God" because that's what they were learned to do. I have to admit... it's way more exciting to classify my inner voice with the Lord then just being aware that I've been talking to myself.
turtle777rescuer · 36-40, M
@Kwek00 it takes courage because man's greatest fear is that he is wrong and will have to give up the rebelious life that he lives. Man is very afraid that there is actually someone up there so that's why He doesn't humble himself and do the thing I'm saying...which is so simple and easy to do... no money required , no church going required no text reading, literally just turning ones heart and mind toward God in humility and asking Him to reveal himself and waiting for a response.
There is a verse that says "God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble"
God will never want fellowship with someone who talks like that man, His Spirit hides from people who are super intelligent and have all the answers yet refuse to acknowledge He is their creator.
It's not gut feelings when most people look around and see all the creation and say " wow if there is all this beautiful creation than someone must have made it, logical right" its not empircal evidence but its common sense + faith, now u just need faith
There is a verse that says "God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble"
God will never want fellowship with someone who talks like that man, His Spirit hides from people who are super intelligent and have all the answers yet refuse to acknowledge He is their creator.
It's not gut feelings when most people look around and see all the creation and say " wow if there is all this beautiful creation than someone must have made it, logical right" its not empircal evidence but its common sense + faith, now u just need faith
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@turtle777rescuer But you replace the fear off being wrong, by courage based on what exactly? Overwinning the fear of being wrong, by just saying that you are right... feels like a hollow victory here. People suffering from a Dunning-Kruger effect do this on a regular basis... and I don't consider this a victory at all.
I'm pretty sure there is a verse that stimulates this kind of behavior. Just like the priest try to make this kind of behavior virtues and "courageous". That's how all these believes keep themselves out of the range of scrutiny.
The tactics is either to connect ignorance to virtue.
Or to prepare the believer against mockery and sceptisism, by saying that the believer is blessed and the other isn't.
But it's all so easy and lazy... there is no effort of proving anything, because the believer has already weaponiszed the idea that God doesn't allow proof. And it's just virtues to submit to the idea being uttered by the believers.
This is even common sense... When I got the niagara falls and I go: wow, this is pretty cool. My brain doesn't need a next step and go: "Well, something must have created it". I mean, why would that be common sense? We know how plate tectonics work. We know how our earth is made up. We know how the water cycle flows... at the end of the day, we don't need a creator to explain why its there... and the "beauty", is just in the eye of the beholder.
I'm pretty sure there is a verse that stimulates this kind of behavior. Just like the priest try to make this kind of behavior virtues and "courageous". That's how all these believes keep themselves out of the range of scrutiny.
The tactics is either to connect ignorance to virtue.
Or to prepare the believer against mockery and sceptisism, by saying that the believer is blessed and the other isn't.
But it's all so easy and lazy... there is no effort of proving anything, because the believer has already weaponiszed the idea that God doesn't allow proof. And it's just virtues to submit to the idea being uttered by the believers.
" wow if there is all this beautiful creation than someone must have made it, logical right" its not empircal evidence but its common sense + faith
This is even common sense... When I got the niagara falls and I go: wow, this is pretty cool. My brain doesn't need a next step and go: "Well, something must have created it". I mean, why would that be common sense? We know how plate tectonics work. We know how our earth is made up. We know how the water cycle flows... at the end of the day, we don't need a creator to explain why its there... and the "beauty", is just in the eye of the beholder.
Beetlejuice68 · 56-60, M
turtle777rescuer · 36-40, M
It makes sense to feel left out when others report experiences you haven’t had. Openness like this is healthy, it lets you stay curious without pretending to know everything. Thanks for sharing such a vulnerable realization.
Also as for genuine unexplained experience, some people interpret these occurrences as non-ordinary or spiritual events, that interpretation is valid for many. The few I experienced, I’ll toss up to (Emotional/psychological coping) the mind can generate comforting apparitions as a way to process loss.
Also as for genuine unexplained experience, some people interpret these occurrences as non-ordinary or spiritual events, that interpretation is valid for many. The few I experienced, I’ll toss up to (Emotional/psychological coping) the mind can generate comforting apparitions as a way to process loss.
BlueSkyKing · M
Evidence is detectable, measurable, testable and falsified. Our five senses are not reliable data collectors, which is why we invented machines that can collect data accurately and without prejudice. These instruments are far more sensitive and reliable than any senses of human and animal. Reality hasn’t had an additional increase.
What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
@BlueSkyKing By "evidence" you no doubt mean "scientific evidence", but where is the scientific evidence for the claim that we should only ever accept such evidence? Upon what evidence is it based? None. And the reason for this is because it's actually a philosophical position, a stance that can't be justified because it's self-refuting.
BlueSkyKing · M
@BlueSkyKing Do you have any thoughts of your own? I've noticed atheists just love to quote the people they apparently admire, but rarely do they come up with something original, or at least an argument that is interesting.
Anyway, do you really need evidence before you'll believe anything at all? I don't. For example, I believe in and accept the, purely philosophical, concept of objective reality. And the reality of the past, and the existence of other minds, and so I'm not a solipsist or dogmatic materialist. There's a name for the attitude expressed in the "meme" you've posted above, and it's called Logical Positivism, and it has gone out of fashion because it can't be justified.
Anyway, do you really need evidence before you'll believe anything at all? I don't. For example, I believe in and accept the, purely philosophical, concept of objective reality. And the reality of the past, and the existence of other minds, and so I'm not a solipsist or dogmatic materialist. There's a name for the attitude expressed in the "meme" you've posted above, and it's called Logical Positivism, and it has gone out of fashion because it can't be justified.