Universalism

To continue. Universalism is the only logical and coherent way of uniting two of the fundamental Christian doctrines i.e. salvation purely by Grace, and that God is Love.

To bring in freewill is to confuse matters entirely. If brought in then the purity of salvation by Grace alone is broken. The causal basis of salvation becomes our "decision" for Christ in time and space, and therefore of "works" rather that of faith/grace alone. When Grace is the causal basis then, as said, if God IS Love, Universalism follows. Otherwise the believer is faced with why God, who is Love, who "wills that all shall be saved" does not in fact do so.

As I have said elsewhere, I am neither a theist nor a Christian. I am a non-theistic non-dualist Buddhist (Pure Land) I see things and relate to them from a Buddhist perspective, which is different from the Christian - not deeper, or higher, just different.

Therefore I think in terms of Original Enlightenment. Therefore, if such is so, why do I need to practice in order to be enlightened? When the Buddha himself was asked why he continued to meditate even though enlightened he replied:-

Out of compassion for the world

Which can bring us back to Christianity. Why act or live in any particular way if all are saved anyway? The answer is simple to see. Suffering exists, indisputably. Will continue to be until the final reconciliation of all things. To live "out of compassion for the world" can make our lives a great adventure, knowing that Reality, the ultimate Source (God) is on our side. On everyone's side. Knowing that the Incarnation was not a one off event lasting for just 30 years or so in the past, but is eternal. That the Father eternally gives birth to the Son - as the Christian mystic Meister Eckhart taught in one of his many great Sermons.

Anyway, I am done. No one seems particularly interested, and I assume that many of the Christians here will completely ignore all that has been posted on this thread yet will, sooner or later, simply post once again in favour of the eternal conscious torment of individual souls. So be it. They have had the invitation to hear the matter here. If they wish to continue in their shame and their folly, that is their choice.

Thank you

Universalims is just a feel good doctrine that people who's personal idea of God and His will does not agree with the actual will of the God that does exist...

Hell and the Eternal lake of fire exist.. And no amount of disagreement with their existence will cause them to cease to exist..

But they will deny the God that exists to create the idol god that conforms to their idea of what God should be.. In the end they are simply worshiping a god in their own image.. They are in the end their own god..

You're off to the land of deception and delusion and eventual eternal damnation..

I appreciate that for most in our modern, secular age, hell as a place of perpetual conscious torment post-mortem is simply a fairy tale. All well and good. But there are others, here, who would insist upon its reality. So far NONE of them have accepted the challenge to actually re-address the matter in their own mind/hearts. Thus falling guilty to the words of there God in Proverbs 18:13:-

Those who answer a matter before hearing it, it is a shame and a folly to them.

Such believers often accuse other of cherry picking from the Bible. On this matter they are guilty themselves. The neither heed the Proverb nor do they take every word of the Bible into account.

In David Bentley Hart's book he lists 23 substantial verses from the New Testament that support the doctrine of Universalism, and claims that there are others.

The problem is that many simply think of the parable of Jesus where some are despatched to "eternal torment" and their thinking is done. The matter closed. That the word translated "eternal" does not mean perpetual in the original Greek is unknown to them. From this point on every mention of being "saved" and "accepting Christ" is seen in the light of the doctrine of eternal torment, whereas such verses can just as easily be understood in the context of the eventual salvation of all.

Anyway, I must go.

Thank you if you have read this far.

Irrespective of anything else, and whether or not we think of ourselves as religious, to apply Universalism in the sense that humankind, even all sentient beings, are "one", calls us forth towards a way of life and living that can be rewarding in and of itself. A deepening of "self".

As one of the 20th centuries great Christians, Thomas Merton, once said (this shortly before his untimely death):-

......the deepest level of communication is not communication, but communion. It is wordless. it is beyond words, and it is beyond speech, and it is beyond concept. Not that we discover a new unity. We discover an older unity. My dear brothers and sisters, we are already one. But we imagine that we are not. And what we have to recover is our original unity. What we have to be is what we are.

What we have to be is what we are

To see that another, however different from ourselves, is to be known as a brother or a sister, is not a cheap "feel good" thought (or demand) It actually calls us to a life of self-judgement, constant reappraisal and an ever greater empathy towards all others who share this world with us.

Universalism is a devil's lie.

https://similarworlds.com/beliefs/4906303-Witch-Gives-Her-Life-to-Jesus-Warns-Against-New-Age-Movement

One of the great potentials offered by God (he or she or it) is the potential to heal, to redeem, to reconcile, to unite, to promise that somewhere, somehow, someway there is an answer to all suffering and the terrible divisions that have always been part of human history. That many would only see God (often just "he" in this case) as merely another cause of further division and worse, eternal suffering, is in my eyes pathetic in the fullest meaning of that word.

(Irrespective of finally being redeemed........😀)

Well, so far just one "christian" belching hellfire. Who has not returned to actually answer my posts made in response.

Yes, belching hellfire and obviously refusing point-blank to hear a matter before they answer it. Totally blind to their own delusions.

A blind leader of the blind. A modern day Pharisee.

Alas, I note that some of our Christian friends have chosen to block me. Refusing to engage in debate, or to Hear a matter before they answer it, they choose instead to eliminate counter-beliefs from the mix.