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Do We Have Free Will?

A Response To The Skeptic's Annotated Bible (SAB) - Do humans have free will?

Deuteronomy 30:19 and Joshua 24:15 are given rightly by the SAB as examples of freewill, which the Bible teaches harmoniously throughout. The perceived contradiction by the SAB is due to an understandable confusion caused by the language of translation which, though not inaccurate can be misleading.

Acts 13:48 - To be ordained or appointed indicates a people being rightly disposed rather than preordained. The verse is talking about the prophecy of Isaiah 42:6-7 in which the opportunity of salvation would be extended to the Gentile.

Romans 8:29-30 is a reference to a class of people rather than specific individuals. God knew that there would be provision for those who would be declared righteous, but he didn't know who each of those people would be. The choice was theirs.

Romans 9:11-22 refers to the undeserved kindness of Jehovah, and that there is nothing we can do which would give us a claim of deserving his mercy. It also references the account of Jacob and Esau, and how Jehovah, seeing them struggle even in the womb, gave Esau's birthright to Jacob.

Ephesians 1:4-5; 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and 2 Timothy 1:9 all deals with the term "before the world began" and considers the time of humankind after the sin of Adam, and prior to their offspring. The point being that immediately after Adam's sin Jehovah began to prepare for man's salvation.

Jude 1:4 demonstrates how past experiences relayed in the Bible serve as an example to us. Jude writes of men who slipped into the congregation, and failing to pay heed to the examples of the past repeated similar offenses. He then gives three examples of this. Faithless Israelites; angels forsaking their original positions and Sodom and Gomorrah. The men Jude referred to were, in a sense, condemned by example through the past.

For a more detailed explanation of the above scriptures see What The Bible Says About Freewill or Determinism.

Though these scriptures may seem to indicate the lack of freewill, of a predestinarian nature at least at first glance, they do not in fact do so and there is no contradiction with any other scriptures in the Bible, either given by the SAB or any other.
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SW-User
Whatever the Bible is said to teach, the subject of free will remains a subject on which there is no conclusion. The arguments still go back and forth. Even in those who still seek answers to anything at all in the Bible, what it actually is claimed to teach is disputed. Predestination, loved by some, seems to preclude free will. Again, given that "we were chosen before the foundation of the world" (St Paul, Ephesians), free will seems to rest in God alone. (I will leave the question of whether even an all knowing God could actually foreknow the choice of a [i]radically free [/i] creature yet to be created)

But to consider free will as often envisaged by certain Christians (of the conservative/literalist/fundamentalist Protestant Reform tradition - AKA [to themselves] as the "True Christians"...馃榾 ) let us analyse it.

It is claimed that God gave us free will so that we, created beings born unasked into a world of extreme inequalities and ambiguities, could "accept" or "reject" Him. Rejection leading to a "just" fate of perpetual conscious torment.

Yet statistics show that up until very recently around 50% of those ever born have died prior to puberty - i.e. before being capable of exercising free will even if they were to have it.

Second, taking the preaching at face value, the only exercise of free will deemed ultimately significant is whether of not anyone has chosen to "accept Jesus". All other choices appear to have no significance. A human being who chooses to study medicine - for instance - simply because they seek to help mankind, yet who has no time for Jesus, has apparently been deemed to have rejected God. No doubt other examples can come to mind. The creedo "not by works but faith alone" is cited to justify the rejection of those who demonstrate a love of their fellow human beings who yet scorn all religion.

Again, free will - so "important" - exists only for our "three score years and ten" (those years if we are lucky!) and then ceases to be. The saved can no longer choose evil, the damned can no longer choose non-existence rather than perpetual torment.

What is actually left of "free will" in such a scenario, in such a creed? To [i]think[/i] at all is to recognise its absurdity.

Of course, outside such theologies, Christianity in its sheer width, depth and breadth, has deeper insights. Alas, insights, and theologies, deemed "apostate" by such "True Christians". I could quote here the "Gift of Freedom" by Thomas Merton of the Catholic Church (AKA "The Great Whore of Babylon...馃榾 ) , a shortish essay that begins to make sense of human freedom. Or perhaps drift towards ideas to be found in the Dharma.

I would simply say that as I see it [i]radical freedom[/i] belongs only to Reality-as-is, and in uniting with such Reality freedom is [i]found/received[/i]. "The truth sets us free" (as the Good Book says.....馃榾 ) It is gift, grace. We are not born with it, to choose or reject some transcendent Being, but when the "self" surrenders, freedom is found.

That is enough.
BibleDataM
@SW-User Thanks for the thoughtful response, I appreciate it. Metal Guru. Alright then . . .

True, it is subject to debate like pretty much everything is, but it seems to me pretty obvious that to an extent we are free to choose. Which is free will. There are limits, though, within the laws of creation and our abilities etc. So, I think the contention lies in the definition.

There's no such thing as a true Christian. There has never been a religion remain even true to itself, thus is the nature of religion.

[quote]It is claimed that God gave us free will so that we, created beings born unasked into a world of extreme inequalities and ambiguities, could "accept" or "reject" Him. Rejection leading to a "just" fate of perpetual conscious torment.[/quote]

Well, this isn't accurate. The wages of sin are death, not perpetual conscious torment. That was adopted by later apostate Christianity. Romans 6:7 says by dying we are acquitted of our sins, Ezekiel 18:4 and Matthew 10:28 say the soul can die/be destroyed, so it can't be tormented literally. The torment is in knowing that in rejecting Jehovah God's sovereignty means everlasting destruction.

It's like saying to someone about to do something really stupid and sure to get themselves killed "You'll be sorry." They won't be sorry, they'll be dead. Same thing. It isn't a literal torment.

[quote]Yet statistics show that up until very recently around 50% of those ever born have died prior to puberty - i.e. before being capable of exercising free will even if they were to have it.[/quote]

Again, it's in the definition. The 50% you speak of didn't get the opportunity. Acts 24:15 refers to them when saying they will be resurrected. So, there again, you have obvious limitations to "free will."

I'd like to fly. I can't. That doesn't mean I don't have free will. At least not reasonably.

[quote]What is actually left of "free will" in such a scenario, in such a creed? To think at all is to recognise its absurdity.[/quote]

Exactly.
SW-User
@BibleData Well, of course there are no "true Christians". I was simply using their own term.

Of course we experience choice. We can only live [i]as if [/i]we are free. We will look before crossing the road. Yet this is no conclusive argument for the existence of free will. Take it up with the philosophers.

Personally I have no belief in the "resurrection" of anyone, nor in any original sinner, whether Adam, a neanderthal man or a cro-magnon man.

What you refer to as not being accurate, please take it up with those on here who DO teach it.

Thanks

(PS. Your use of "apostate Christianity" . I really do have to laugh....馃榾 )
BibleDataM
@SW-User [quote]Personally I have no belief in the "resurrection" of anyone, nor in any original sinner, whether Adam, a neanderthal man or a cro-magnon man.[/quote]

Right. By choice. You are free to do so.
SW-User
@BibleData Ha! Yet another true christian laying down the law. Sing your song elsewhere.

I suspect that you have no belief in an eternal wandering in samsara, until such time as you come to surrender to the Dharma.

Your choice ("free" or not)

All the best mate.