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Do We Have Free Will?

A Response To The Skeptic's Annotated Bible (SAB) - Do humans have free will?

Deuteronomy 30:19 and Joshua 24:15 are given rightly by the SAB as examples of freewill, which the Bible teaches harmoniously throughout. The perceived contradiction by the SAB is due to an understandable confusion caused by the language of translation which, though not inaccurate can be misleading.

Acts 13:48 - To be ordained or appointed indicates a people being rightly disposed rather than preordained. The verse is talking about the prophecy of Isaiah 42:6-7 in which the opportunity of salvation would be extended to the Gentile.

Romans 8:29-30 is a reference to a class of people rather than specific individuals. God knew that there would be provision for those who would be declared righteous, but he didn't know who each of those people would be. The choice was theirs.

Romans 9:11-22 refers to the undeserved kindness of Jehovah, and that there is nothing we can do which would give us a claim of deserving his mercy. It also references the account of Jacob and Esau, and how Jehovah, seeing them struggle even in the womb, gave Esau's birthright to Jacob.

Ephesians 1:4-5; 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and 2 Timothy 1:9 all deals with the term "before the world began" and considers the time of humankind after the sin of Adam, and prior to their offspring. The point being that immediately after Adam's sin Jehovah began to prepare for man's salvation.

Jude 1:4 demonstrates how past experiences relayed in the Bible serve as an example to us. Jude writes of men who slipped into the congregation, and failing to pay heed to the examples of the past repeated similar offenses. He then gives three examples of this. Faithless Israelites; angels forsaking their original positions and Sodom and Gomorrah. The men Jude referred to were, in a sense, condemned by example through the past.

For a more detailed explanation of the above scriptures see What The Bible Says About Freewill or Determinism.

Though these scriptures may seem to indicate the lack of freewill, of a predestinarian nature at least at first glance, they do not in fact do so and there is no contradiction with any other scriptures in the Bible, either given by the SAB or any other.
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revenant · F
I believe so but only within a certain margin.
BibleData · M
@revenant I think only God has true free will, but even that isn't without limitations. For example God can't lie, can't die, can't come to this galaxy.
revenant · F
@BibleData what do you mean by " can't come to this galaxy " ?
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BibleData · M
@revenant The heavens can't contain God, (1 Kings 8:27; 2 Chronicles 2:6; 6:18)
BibleData · M
@Emosaur I don't know why I have keep explaining this to you. You just won't get that chip off your shoulder.

There is no contradiction, except for the contradiction of the majority of Christians and the Bible. The Bible says God can't lie, can't die and the heavens can't contain him. That God didn't know that Adam and Eve had sinned, that Cain had killed Abel or that the people in Sodom and Gomorrah was as bad as people were telling him. The Bible says God's position is fixed in heaven.

So, he can't be omnipresent. And he can't be omni anything else to the exaggerated extreme the religious seem to think.

But then you have to be careful, because if you consider the term omnivore it isn't used in that extreme way either. Being omnivore doesn't mean eating everything - like the space time continuum, glass shards or thermonuclear devices. It means eating both plant and meat.

So does saying God can't lie mean he's not omnipotent? Does saying God doesn't know what everyone is thinking always mean he isn't omniscient?

It's a stupid game.
revenant · F
@BibleData if the heavens can't contain God...where is he then ?
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BibleData · M
@revenant That's a good question. Maybe sometime I'll have time to answer it, but right now I've got to do shit. I'm retired so that means I can never take a break. I'll edit this later.
revenant · F
@BibleData I am anticipating ..." within us" ..but perhaps am wrong. Hope you come back though after you do your things.
BibleData · M
@Emosaur [quote]I'm going by what Christians say,[/quote]

And I've told you over and over again . . . might as well ask the cat. You should know better than ask a Christian. Even Christian scholars are almost exclusively influenced by stupid pagan traditions that came from the ancient pagans. They don't understand the Bible. Think of the majority of teaching from the majority "Christians." The immortal soul from Socrates, the Trinity from Plato, hell from Dante and Milton, the Cross from Constantine, Christmas from Saturnalia and Dickens, Easter from Astarte and the Rapture from Darby.

None of that shit is in the Bible. The modern day "Christians" aren't Christian.
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BibleData · M
@Emosaur [quote]The Bible is some ancient fairytale book.[/quote]

You haven't demonstrated that to anyone's satisfaction other than your own and anyway it doesn't change anything I've said in this thread.
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revenant · F
@Emosaur You do not know they never happened.
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BibleData · M
@revenant Within us is a figurative expression. It's like saying that when a loved one dies they will always be a part of you, or with you. It's true, but isn't meant literally.
revenant · F
@BibleData perhaps or perhaps not. Perhaps God lives in our pineal gland or in our spine ! or perhaps a piece of God..who knows.
revenant · F
@Emosaur who is ' we' ?
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revenant · F
@Emosaur Those who deny your reality might be in the right. In 50 years ' time who knows what people will have discovered, uncovered and accepted as truth.
humanity is not static.
Humanity differs across cultures and ages.

Humanity has not discovered 1/10th of what this planet is hiding anyway.
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revenant · F
@Emosaur nope. You do not know anything as true 100%.

Have you perhaps thought that you lacked the instruments ? or that you did not even know that you were needing other instruments in the first place ?

An ant's view of the world will be different from yours and that ant will be lacking your instruments.
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revenant · F
@Emosaur how were the pyramids built ? those in Egypt and South America ?
BibleData · M
@revenant [quote]perhaps or perhaps not. Perhaps God lives in our pineal gland or in our spine ! or perhaps a piece of God..who knows.[/quote]

When I speak of God I'm speaking of Jehovah of the Bible. It teaches God isn't literally within us. Not in the universe (physical heavens) or literally in us.

But that's just the Bible and the Bible God, Jehovah. If you are talking about some other God I don't know about that. I tend to think they are all modeled after the one in the Bible which I don't think is fair to conflate the two, but I digress.