Wifetheboss · 70-79, CNew
People are honest and polite without the threat of going to hell. Remember this: GOD murdered every human- babies, children, and adults- and animals on earth. Then created Hell if you do not worship him.
Mindful · 56-60, F
@Wifetheboss I understand what you're saying. I've just grown up surrounded by positive living people who did not throw hell into my face. The emphasis was love and kindness. That felt peaceful to me. I had a guidebook called the Bible and mostly the New Testament. What is the guidebook/rules of society for atheist? Did it come from classroom teachers? Parenting? The law? When I'm in doubt I turn to a book in the Bible called first Corinthians 13. It defines and describes what love is if I am unsure about something I asked myself is what I am doing, loving? Or is it selfish and cruel then I meditate and try to direct myself to be a loving person. But I get this guidance from the Bible And meditation does an atheist ever feel like they need to correct their own behavior
Neoerectus · M
This is assuming humans require an external guider. Not all seem to require this. Also, reference Maslows Hierarchy of Needs (Google summary)
"How Unmet Needs Create a Need for Authority
The "Jungle" Worldview:
Maslow noted that individuals with extreme insecurity view the world as a dangerous jungle where safety is maintained only through power, dominance, and strict submission.
Trading Freedom for Safety: When lower-level safety and belonging needs are threatened, people often surrender personal autonomy to authority figures or groups in exchange for protection and a sense of inclusion.
Authoritarian Dynamics: Authoritarian groups and cults exploit basic human anxieties, leveraging the need for belonging to punish dissenters and reward absolute obedience.
How Self-Actualized People Relate to AuthorityAutonomy from Culture:
Self-actualizing individuals are intrinsically guided by their own moral compass and independent judgment rather than cultural pressures or external approval.
Resistance to Coercion: Highly mature individuals display democratic values and an active resistance to arbitrary social control, manipulation, or unjust power dynamics.
Respect Based on Competence: Rather than submitting to fear or status, a self-actualized person evaluates authority through mutual respect, truth-seeking, and shared humane purposes.
"How Unmet Needs Create a Need for Authority
The "Jungle" Worldview:
Maslow noted that individuals with extreme insecurity view the world as a dangerous jungle where safety is maintained only through power, dominance, and strict submission.
Trading Freedom for Safety: When lower-level safety and belonging needs are threatened, people often surrender personal autonomy to authority figures or groups in exchange for protection and a sense of inclusion.
Authoritarian Dynamics: Authoritarian groups and cults exploit basic human anxieties, leveraging the need for belonging to punish dissenters and reward absolute obedience.
How Self-Actualized People Relate to AuthorityAutonomy from Culture:
Self-actualizing individuals are intrinsically guided by their own moral compass and independent judgment rather than cultural pressures or external approval.
Resistance to Coercion: Highly mature individuals display democratic values and an active resistance to arbitrary social control, manipulation, or unjust power dynamics.
Respect Based on Competence: Rather than submitting to fear or status, a self-actualized person evaluates authority through mutual respect, truth-seeking, and shared humane purposes.
Rabscuttle · 41-45
This is going to be an unpopular statement, but: they don't. Not because humans are incapable of forming moral frameworks based on their own reasoning, but because among them, atheists don't actually exist; we're simply not wired for it.
Broadly speaking, we can divide the gods into three categories: the supernatural, the natural, and the artificial. The supernatural are what most people think of when they hear the word "god": Yahweh, Mazda, Zeus, guys like that. Their existence is a matter of faith. The natural gods DO exist; they're Power, Pleasure, Fear, and so on. The artificial are mostly refinements (often presented as aspects or avatars) of the other two categories. They, similarly, do exist, but rely on humanity for their creation, and usually their sustenance: Status, Approval, and of course, the Almighty Dollar.
You are, likely, dubious, claiming those aren't worshiped in the same way that the supernatural gods are. Experiment, then: take a thick wad of single dollar bills, walk on to a busy road's overpass, and toss them down, one by one- you'll people run into traffic to grab them, risking their health and their lives for what they could get with just a few minutes' work (as per local minimum wage laws). If it walks like a god and quacks like a god...
All that said, if you only practice moral behavior for fear of retribution (be it from god or government or any other external entity), then are you really being moral, or just cowardly?
Broadly speaking, we can divide the gods into three categories: the supernatural, the natural, and the artificial. The supernatural are what most people think of when they hear the word "god": Yahweh, Mazda, Zeus, guys like that. Their existence is a matter of faith. The natural gods DO exist; they're Power, Pleasure, Fear, and so on. The artificial are mostly refinements (often presented as aspects or avatars) of the other two categories. They, similarly, do exist, but rely on humanity for their creation, and usually their sustenance: Status, Approval, and of course, the Almighty Dollar.
You are, likely, dubious, claiming those aren't worshiped in the same way that the supernatural gods are. Experiment, then: take a thick wad of single dollar bills, walk on to a busy road's overpass, and toss them down, one by one- you'll people run into traffic to grab them, risking their health and their lives for what they could get with just a few minutes' work (as per local minimum wage laws). If it walks like a god and quacks like a god...
All that said, if you only practice moral behavior for fear of retribution (be it from god or government or any other external entity), then are you really being moral, or just cowardly?
Mindful · 56-60, F
@Rabscuttle your response is interesting. Thanks.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
An inner moral sense and empathy. What teaches religious people to be liars, thieves, and killers?
Mindful · 56-60, F
@ChipmunkErnie from the very beginning of my life I've had moral and Christian (sincere) upbringing. I prayed and meditated to be a "good" person. So I attribute this desire in me to my religeous and parent upbringing. If my parents had been immoral perhaps I would have learned immoral behavior. I can't pretend my religeous influence had nothing to do with my choices, honestly, I ve only known about atheism in my adult life. I'm just trying to understand. What I'm gathering is that some morality is innate, but, my guess is that parents /family have a lot to do with moral instructions, so does the law. As for religious people who are liars, thieves, murderers, I'd like to think the New Testament tries to teach loving ways to be. The Old Testament seems to just tell it the way things were. People themselves have to decide what they believe or practice. But in the Bible, In general there is a belief system of what's right and wrong. It's a guideline. An inner moral compass with no guidelines (Ten Commandments and 1 Corinthians 13, proverbs) is just hard to imagine, that's all. Life is full of instruction manuals for everyday living. I'm just wondering what instruction manual do atheists use? Is there one? Please know I understand that people will just do what they will want to do. No matter their upbringing. If you're an atheist, your saying that you have an innate desire to simply become a better person, even after you've engaged in something less than desireable? Do you feel guilt even if there is no God aware of something "wrong" that you've done? Do you still desire to change for the better? It just seems that without guidlines to follow, that an athiest might think nothing they do is wrong?sorry I'm just trying to take the Bible out of the equation, and I've always had it as an influence. It might even be the basis of laws in general. Like do not kill. For me that's tied to the Bible/God rule book.
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Mindful · 56-60, F
@Mindfulness not scared of failing? I think she was scared of failing
Mindful · 56-60, F
@Mindfulness sure, yes.
AdmiralPrune · 46-50, M
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
BrandNewMan · 61-69, M
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Boeing · 36-40
Well, I am certainly neurodivergent in ways and all I have to say is that my mom's obsession to take me to the priest to confess my sins, and amongst my sins being to never tell any lies, simply encouraged my awkwardness to spill the truth out, even in improper situations. I have suffered for having no filters when it comes to my speech. So, there's that I had to share.
MoveAlong · 70-79, M
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
It basically means you do not need an expert or authority figure to tell you what is obvious.
It basically means you do not need an expert or authority figure to tell you what is obvious.
MrSmartyPants · 46-50, M
It would I imagine involve how circumstances are shaped by doing things the proper and the improper way, but to go deeper, which would be needful would require 1) a more in-depth analysis, and 2) someone smarter than me.