Today's Question For Atheists
Since you believe there to be no God/gods how would you answer the question of the existence of Lords. Are there any Lords?
This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
DocSavage · M
@AkioTsukino
You wouldn’t by any chance be a flat earther , are you ? The more you go on, the more incoherent you become. I believe you are doing this deliberately. You seem to think that if the rest of us were aware of the various definitions you have, it would force us to change our views to accommodate all of those other variations.
Faith in currency or in a spouse is obviously not the same as faith in religious deity. The term “Atheist” does mean Anti - theist. While the definition of “Asexual, does not refer to Anti-sex. As you stated yesterday. Much like Ken Ham’s description of light years. Correct in one context, but nonetheless irrelevant to the discussion.
Since you refuse to state your point. It would be pointless to answer any question, until you settle on which definition you actually mean.
You wouldn’t by any chance be a flat earther , are you ? The more you go on, the more incoherent you become. I believe you are doing this deliberately. You seem to think that if the rest of us were aware of the various definitions you have, it would force us to change our views to accommodate all of those other variations.
Faith in currency or in a spouse is obviously not the same as faith in religious deity. The term “Atheist” does mean Anti - theist. While the definition of “Asexual, does not refer to Anti-sex. As you stated yesterday. Much like Ken Ham’s description of light years. Correct in one context, but nonetheless irrelevant to the discussion.
Since you refuse to state your point. It would be pointless to answer any question, until you settle on which definition you actually mean.
1-25 of 42
AkioTsukino · M
@DocSavage [quote]You seem to think that if the rest of us were aware of the various definitions you have, it would force us to change our views to accommodate all of those other variations.[/quote]
I think that's the key to why atheists and unbelievers in general are so obtuse on the meaning and application of the words and concepts of gods, which is interesting because the same applies to theists and believers. If you tell a believer who doesn't understand what the word god means that there are millions of gods, they will respond the same as an atheist who has the same misunderstanding.
It's a knee jerk reaction borne from ignorance.
My definition is the definition of atheism. Rejecting God and gods. If there were no other gods there wouldn't be a need to have both God and gods specified in the meaning. It doesn't force you to change your views, it describes your views. You reject God. You reject gods.
I'm only pointing out that you can still have gods while rejecting them because you idea what a god is. If you accepted my definitions it would actually make you a better atheist because you would understand more fully what to reject. My definitions are also in line with common use of gods since the concept of gods has existed, in every language ever spoken. Even before the English word God ever existed.
[quote]Faith in currency or in a spouse is obviously not the same as faith in religious deity.[/quote]
Faith means to have trust in, to believe in. Just because you have faith in currency or a loved one, a friend, etc. doesn't mean you have faith in a deity.
[quote]“Atheist” does mean Anti - theist. [/quote]
I have never said it did. In fact I said it didn't. And I said I preferred the term anti-theist as it makes more sense and is more accurate.
[quote]Since you refuse to state your point. It would be pointless to answer any question, until you settle on which definition you actually mean.[/quote]
Definition of what? Atheist means no part of or interest in theists. Most atheists I know in my family and personal life want nothing to do with theists. They think to argue with them or take up some social or political stance against them would be ridiculous, and bring them down to the level of the theists. Militant so called atheists are actually anti-theists. Like antichrists, or antivaxxer. That means opposed to, against theists, Christ, or vaccines. Atheism is the same, except for theism instead of theists. The antithesis of theism.
I think that's the key to why atheists and unbelievers in general are so obtuse on the meaning and application of the words and concepts of gods, which is interesting because the same applies to theists and believers. If you tell a believer who doesn't understand what the word god means that there are millions of gods, they will respond the same as an atheist who has the same misunderstanding.
It's a knee jerk reaction borne from ignorance.
My definition is the definition of atheism. Rejecting God and gods. If there were no other gods there wouldn't be a need to have both God and gods specified in the meaning. It doesn't force you to change your views, it describes your views. You reject God. You reject gods.
I'm only pointing out that you can still have gods while rejecting them because you idea what a god is. If you accepted my definitions it would actually make you a better atheist because you would understand more fully what to reject. My definitions are also in line with common use of gods since the concept of gods has existed, in every language ever spoken. Even before the English word God ever existed.
[quote]Faith in currency or in a spouse is obviously not the same as faith in religious deity.[/quote]
Faith means to have trust in, to believe in. Just because you have faith in currency or a loved one, a friend, etc. doesn't mean you have faith in a deity.
[quote]“Atheist” does mean Anti - theist. [/quote]
I have never said it did. In fact I said it didn't. And I said I preferred the term anti-theist as it makes more sense and is more accurate.
[quote]Since you refuse to state your point. It would be pointless to answer any question, until you settle on which definition you actually mean.[/quote]
Definition of what? Atheist means no part of or interest in theists. Most atheists I know in my family and personal life want nothing to do with theists. They think to argue with them or take up some social or political stance against them would be ridiculous, and bring them down to the level of the theists. Militant so called atheists are actually anti-theists. Like antichrists, or antivaxxer. That means opposed to, against theists, Christ, or vaccines. Atheism is the same, except for theism instead of theists. The antithesis of theism.
DocSavage · M
@AkioTsukino
Ridiculous. You’re trying to get people to accept a very narrow, obscure, and obsolete concept of gods in order to alter or deny the context of the conversation. You might hold to the idea that some people consider random objects as god, under certain limited conditions. But the general population does not.
Atheist and believers understand there have been many different god throughout history, but no one who describes gods nowadays, is going to take what you’re saying seriously. People when they debate or argue about god or gods know what they are referring talking about. And despite what you might think, it’s not sticks, rocks, or cow shit. So stop wasting our time. If you have a point to make, let’s hear it.
Ridiculous. You’re trying to get people to accept a very narrow, obscure, and obsolete concept of gods in order to alter or deny the context of the conversation. You might hold to the idea that some people consider random objects as god, under certain limited conditions. But the general population does not.
Atheist and believers understand there have been many different god throughout history, but no one who describes gods nowadays, is going to take what you’re saying seriously. People when they debate or argue about god or gods know what they are referring talking about. And despite what you might think, it’s not sticks, rocks, or cow shit. So stop wasting our time. If you have a point to make, let’s hear it.
redredred · M
@AkioTsukino Faith, as the famous western philosopher, Archibald Bunker, once observed. Is believing something no one in his right mind would believe.
Atheism and agnosticism are simply the entirely rational position that, until demonstrated unequivocally otherwise, there are no unseen, magical entities that live in an invisible realm and influence our lives and who have prepared an afterlife for the good and another one for the wicked. That’s a hopeful belief without any rational basis.
Atheism and agnosticism are simply the entirely rational position that, until demonstrated unequivocally otherwise, there are no unseen, magical entities that live in an invisible realm and influence our lives and who have prepared an afterlife for the good and another one for the wicked. That’s a hopeful belief without any rational basis.
AkioTsukino · M
@newjaninev2 @redredred No, faith is trusting in something that you can't possibly know. Like you have faith in your spouse being . . . guess what? Being faithful. Why are unbelievers so obtuse?
redredred · M
@AkioTsukino I have years of experience with my real-life, very palpable and visible spouse. I can actually talk to her, literally in the flesh, and gauge her responses in terms of honesty and sincerity. Some putative god does not elicit the same degree of trust because the entire relationship,in rational terms, is one-way.
AkioTsukino · M
@redredred I have faith in the average intelligence of humanity. I have to believe, based upon my experience, that you understand what I'm saying and are only being argumentative because what I'm saying is perceived by you to be a threat to your world view. You are demonstrating ideological fixation.
No matter how much honesty etc. your visible spouse has demonstrated, you can't be sure, that is you can't know for certain she will remain faithful.
No matter how much honesty etc. your visible spouse has demonstrated, you can't be sure, that is you can't know for certain she will remain faithful.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@AkioTsukino to trust in something that you do not actually know to be so is to demonstrate faith? To have faith in something is to pretend that you know it to be so even though you do not.
You’re just making a circular argument that goes nowhere.
Again: faith is merely pretending to know something that you do not in fact know.
There’s nothing virtuous about faith... it’s just pretence
You’re just making a circular argument that goes nowhere.
Again: faith is merely pretending to know something that you do not in fact know.
There’s nothing virtuous about faith... it’s just pretence
AkioTsukino · M
@newjaninev2 [quote]to trust in something that you do not actually know to be so is to demonstrate faith?[/quote]
Correct.
[quote]To have faith in something is to pretend that you know it to be so even though you do not.
[/quote]
Do you know that Jehovah God doesn't exist? Because I don't know that he does. I have faith that he does and you have faith that he doesn't. That's not pretense.
[quote]Again: faith is merely pretending to know something that you do not in fact know.[/quote]
I responded to that above. Let me ask you something though, do you know how old the universe is?
[quote]There’s nothing virtuous about faith... it’s just pretence[/quote]
I think you are doing that now, but that isn't faith. All you have to do is look it up. Am I the only one who looks things up before I open my big mouth, figuratively speaking.
1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something. "this restores one's faith in politicians"
2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. "bereaved people who have shown supreme faith"
I recommend the first and recommend avoiding the second.
Correct.
[quote]To have faith in something is to pretend that you know it to be so even though you do not.
[/quote]
Do you know that Jehovah God doesn't exist? Because I don't know that he does. I have faith that he does and you have faith that he doesn't. That's not pretense.
[quote]Again: faith is merely pretending to know something that you do not in fact know.[/quote]
I responded to that above. Let me ask you something though, do you know how old the universe is?
[quote]There’s nothing virtuous about faith... it’s just pretence[/quote]
I think you are doing that now, but that isn't faith. All you have to do is look it up. Am I the only one who looks things up before I open my big mouth, figuratively speaking.
1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something. "this restores one's faith in politicians"
2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. "bereaved people who have shown supreme faith"
I recommend the first and recommend avoiding the second.
DocSavage · M
@AkioTsukino
Actually . I do know Jehovah, Yahweh or what you choose to call it doesn’t exist. Could I convince anyone who believes ? Probably not. There is nothing to show as evidence either way. I am however certain as it is possible to be. But I don’t need the fallacies to argue it.
Actually . I do know Jehovah, Yahweh or what you choose to call it doesn’t exist. Could I convince anyone who believes ? Probably not. There is nothing to show as evidence either way. I am however certain as it is possible to be. But I don’t need the fallacies to argue it.
redredred · M
@AkioTsukino True, I cannot be certain about my wife. She is however visible, palpable, audible and responsive to both verbal and physical prompts. She casts a shadow, does work with obvious results and leaves unmistakeable signed that she is real. I have yet to clean god’s hair out of the shower drain or pick up god’s laundry off the floor.
You’re playing with words and, like a middle school orchestra, you don’t play all that well. We who have been responding to you are not the ones being obtuse, you are.
You’re playing with words and, like a middle school orchestra, you don’t play all that well. We who have been responding to you are not the ones being obtuse, you are.
AkioTsukino · M
@DocSavage [quote]Actually . I do know Jehovah, Yahweh or what you choose to call it doesn’t exist. [/quote]
In essence, I agree with you here because knowledge is defined as facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.
That makes knowledge subjective. Conjecture. Speculative.
[quote]Could I convince anyone who believes ? Probably not.[/quote]
It isn't your responsibility just as it isn't my responsibility to convince anyone who doesn't believe that he exists.
In essence, I agree with you here because knowledge is defined as facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.
That makes knowledge subjective. Conjecture. Speculative.
[quote]Could I convince anyone who believes ? Probably not.[/quote]
It isn't your responsibility just as it isn't my responsibility to convince anyone who doesn't believe that he exists.
AkioTsukino · M
@redredred [quote]True, I cannot be certain about my wife. She is however visible, palpable, audible and responsive to both verbal and physical prompts. She casts a shadow, does work with obvious results and leaves unmistakeable signed that she is real. I have yet to clean god’s hair out of the shower drain or pick up god’s laundry off the floor.[/quote]
Your wife isn't your god. We're talking about faith. You have faith in your wife, you don't have faith in God or gods.
Your wife isn't your god. We're talking about faith. You have faith in your wife, you don't have faith in God or gods.
redredred · M
@AkioTsukino Congratulation, I believe that’s the point I’ve been making all along that’s eluded you.
AkioTsukino · M
@redredred [quote]Congratulation, I believe that’s the point I’ve been making all along that’s eluded you.[/quote]
No, you only thought that it had eluded me. It's also the point I've been making all along. Well, not specifically regarding your wife, but that having faith in something doesn't imply that thing is your god. A god is only something that is attributed might. It comes from a root word meaning mighty/strong one.
Your error is, apparently, that you think god simply means God. That any god is God. That a literal god can't exist. That's incorrect.
No, you only thought that it had eluded me. It's also the point I've been making all along. Well, not specifically regarding your wife, but that having faith in something doesn't imply that thing is your god. A god is only something that is attributed might. It comes from a root word meaning mighty/strong one.
Your error is, apparently, that you think god simply means God. That any god is God. That a literal god can't exist. That's incorrect.
DocSavage · M
@AkioTsukino
Nonsense again.
You can have faith in your wife, based on your personal knowledge of her personality and character and the history of your relationship and experience.
Faith in god, is based on the opposite.
Nonsense again.
You can have faith in your wife, based on your personal knowledge of her personality and character and the history of your relationship and experience.
Faith in god, is based on the opposite.
AkioTsukino · M
@DocSavage [quote]You can have faith in your wife, based on your personal knowledge of her personality and character and the history of your relationship and experience.
Faith in god, is based on the opposite.[/quote]
It doesn't matter what the faith is based upon. Faith can be based upon nothing. Faith can be contrary to all the things you mention.
Faith in god, is based on the opposite.[/quote]
It doesn't matter what the faith is based upon. Faith can be based upon nothing. Faith can be contrary to all the things you mention.
AkioTsukino · M
@DocSavage [quote]Bollocks ![/quote]
Pram!
[quote]Faith based of reliable past experience and personal first hand knowledge is worth more than superstition, hear say , or religious convictions.
Again it context.[/quote]
Right. I'll say it again. It doesn't matter what the faith is based upon. Faith can be based upon nothing. Faith can be contrary to all the things you mention.
Pram!
[quote]Faith based of reliable past experience and personal first hand knowledge is worth more than superstition, hear say , or religious convictions.
Again it context.[/quote]
Right. I'll say it again. It doesn't matter what the faith is based upon. Faith can be based upon nothing. Faith can be contrary to all the things you mention.
AkioTsukino · M
Really · 80-89, M
@AkioTsukino An interesting read, but ... (Haha, you knew I'd have a 'but') ...
[quote]History is an agreed upon set of lies[/quote]
[i]Everything[/i] recorded as history is false? Absurd. History doubtless contains many, many lies 'but' - none of it is true? Your very own article quotes a great deal of history and is largely based on it.
Still very interesting though; thank you. It aligns well with my own skepticism about many 'established norms, beliefs, or paradigms'.
[quote]History is an agreed upon set of lies[/quote]
[i]Everything[/i] recorded as history is false? Absurd. History doubtless contains many, many lies 'but' - none of it is true? Your very own article quotes a great deal of history and is largely based on it.
Still very interesting though; thank you. It aligns well with my own skepticism about many 'established norms, beliefs, or paradigms'.
1-25 of 42