Drifting away

@Learninglife9 The climate is changing, and by Man's hand not God's.

The earthquakes and volcanoes are not changing significantly; and have not done so over human's short history on Earth. They are effects of the planet's internal workings, whether you believe by Divine work or not, and Mankind can do nothing to control or influence them.

We can't even forecast them easily and accurately; but the Biblical prophesies of them are meaningless because they are vague anyway, concocted by people who lived in a region where such events are geologically normal though infrequent and random in human life-times.

Though Luke was probably right about "man's hearts... failing", meaning people of his time did not understand such events, understandably found them terrifying, and equally understandably found it easy to think them as by God being nasty to humans.

(Though that divine ire notion is clearly silly, it has had modern parallels. A few years ago some Iranian cleric publicly blamed an earthquake in his country on women wearing bikinis!)

@ArishMell

There will always be people who disagree even scientists in whatever field they specialize in.

Volcanic activity is increasing.

[media=https://youtu.be/WOBwZI2NMDM?si=xTOroPWc27DAjGzV]

[media=https://youtu.be/E3zP2ntLzdQ?si=K7jnU_3L9j10Uzlj]

Earthquakes are increasing

[media=https://youtu.be/98TltmEKkP0?si=7_rna9Ws8LoOD4xz]

[media=https://youtu.be/iqmpJjP1xjg?si=V3G00eOcWgKO-A9h]

And if you believe that what man is doing on Earth has nothing to do with the changes that are coming up on earth that is your prerogative.

**I never said that man was influencing or causing them** ""but I will say it now, what man is doing upon the Earth is influencing everything that is happening upon the Earth at this point in time"" and I reiterate ""God never gave the details of why it would happen or how it would happen but it would happen.""

And the Iranian cleric and the bikini sounds more like something Trump would say Nuke a hurricane / sweep the forest /there is no such thing as climate change.

If you think Divine notion is silly or prophecy is fake - that is your business, I don't care.

And I add hurricanes and tornadoes in this country are becoming more frequent and more devastating. Devastating because they're more people they affect _ more frequent because the actions of people are causing climate change _ climate change affects the weather as well as volcanic and earthquake activities.

[media=https://youtu.be/zWLaztJFu1Y?si=xI55IeF3saUKVAO8]

[media=https://youtu.be/7KuLvzHBh_E?si=R2nEoM8tCOdQ8Yhm]

[media=https://youtu.be/TAMLsG2FGYQ?si=wkId98SKWKX_iej_]

[media=https://youtu.be/mP0ON3ECjLM?si=3MrNfAoHJaDMRF_6]

@Learninglife9 The climate and the Earth's structural geology are two totally different things.

Whatever effects human activities are having on the climate - hence weather - how and to what extent; we can not and are not affecting volcanic and seismic events.

Climatic changes now need be assessed against evidence and observations taken over the last couple of centuries, and against evidence they have left over many thousands of years - and this is being done, world-wide.

Eruptions and earthquakes are becoming more frequent, so 'tis said ... Perhaps so, but over what time, and world-wide or in one small area as one of those YouTube links suggests? They are effects of processes lasting many tens of millions of years, they don't occur to timetables or in identical geological regimes although each might be vaguely cyclic in its own way over its own scale of time.

Each seismic / volcanic region is unique and has to be considered on its own terms.

So though we, especially the potential victims, need know what we might expect, we need understand the fundamental nature of these events to make any sense of it.


For anyone to think natural events were somehow forecast by some ancient scribe, is only personal opinion; but misses the point that the scribe was only stating the obvious, because any culture living in or near areas affected by these natural events knew they could happen again!

Of course they will happen again - and they will whatever anyone's religious opinions.

@ArishMell

Indeed it is my opinion - my belief and I believe I indicated if you don't believe in Scripture or God that's your business.

I think I also indicated that even scientist have different opinions different theories.

I am aware of Earth's structure from its core, to her mantle, to her crust and to the water surrounding the planet - which used to surround the whole Earth in fact science says the Earth was once a water planet with no visible land. Scripture also says the same thing when God separated the waters from the waters and brought them all together in one place and then God called the land to appear.

I am aware of climate / weather and it's changes throughout the history of Earth. I believe I said something to the effects of what man is doing today is influencing the climate. In other words if man wasn't doing what he was doing the events that are occurring with the weather/climate today may naturally not occur until a hundred thousand years from now........ Climate change is affecting volcanic and earthquake activities regardless of who agrees or disagrees as I said there will always be those who agree or disagree.
[media=https://youtu.be/tzxBlASY8tw?si=pMD5YzSpSSpD75h8]

https://www.geohaz.org/post/climate-change-can-amplify-earthquake-and-volcano-impacts


I am also aware _ even if you're not - that what was written by ancient scribes from the creation to even modern times agrees with much of the science of modern times and agrees with events that are happening in these modern time.

And the volcanic and earthquake activities increasing are worldwide. And if you were actually interested in learning the truth_ you would have done the research but your only interest is refuting information or my direct statements that I give in any way that you can......... As far as hurricanes hurricanes generally only strike North America _ I wonder why - is it punishment for activities done in the past but that's another subject we shall not dwell in or I won't........ Tornadoes though they are worldwide, the increasement is basically here in this country but this country is prone to have more tornadoes than the rest of the world - naturally.

[media=https://youtu.be/6b-biGzz1l8?si=W1bDEpoy5mNxb6Jl]

[media=https://youtu.be/XnGpzeILVxk?si=tJLmviBZM4IxTE89]

You choice / your opinion. Just as I voice mine and it is your opinion just as you said mine is my opinion and I add belief concerning God and scripture. And the day he reveals his self again to Earth - well.

@Learninglife9 I did not refute your information although I do disagree with one statement you have just made, that the Earth was once entirely covered with water..

None of the literature I have read ever says that. If anything the opposite was so: the Earth cooled to form a solid crust of basalt surrounding the early, thicker but perhaps low-lying granite continents floating on the Mantle. It was only after it had cooled sufficiently that all the water that it had accumulated either trapped with in it or atmospherically could condense to form the sea. There must have been a long period of extraordinarily severe storms in this process, which eroded a lot of the new young land.

The mountains came later, but throughout the Earth's history in its basic form now, the continents have been ambling around the globe, breaking and reforming, and still are.

I don't know why hurricanes seem confined to the Western tropical Atlantic, and typhoons to Asian coasts, when we might expect similar weather patterns in other tropical maritime regions. Presumably it is a matter of particular combinations of ocean and atmospheric circulations in each region. Interesting point though

They are nothing to do with "punishment" - though we may well wonder why anyone wants to live in such hazardous areas, and with climate change starting to bite harder, I would not be surprised if people do move away from them. Still, we can say that about almost anywhere in the world: whatever possessed cultures to develop in both torrid and frigid near-deserts, for example? We are a remarkably adaptable species!


The Bible was never meant as any sort of scientific treatise. It is not even very helpful as a history-book because even past its propaganda, faith and mere legend elements, it does not give dates or ages. In fact I think there is a "Year Null" point to some of its pre-Torah and pre-Bible books, to help weld a fractious bunch of small tribes into a unified society that abandoned or re-invented previous religious ideas.

None of the "prophesies" about natural events mean anything because they merely state the blatantly obvious, and at the most basic level: "Xyz will happen again and it's God's will!"

Yes, of course they will, we can all guess that, so...?.

For Middle-East and Mediterranean shores residents between them, irrespective of their religions, always had to put up with occasional storms, floods, earthquakes, volcanoes, plagues of agrarian pests and epidemics of dangerous diseases.

So some scribe seen as a clever mystic because he was literate, saying they will happen again was only saying what anyone could have said then, and can nowadays. The difference is that we are better able to forecast when, where and to what severity; and possibly to cope with it. (The prophets were careful never to try to say what, where and when; but couldn't anyway, of course.)

It also means your cannot try to tie modern knowledge to a minor Bronze Age culture's beliefs. They were not stupid: they knew what happened naturally around them and could predict regularities like the phases of the Moon, but not random disasters. They knew these things would happen again in their future; but could not understand them so either praised or blamed their god for them.

Which got them nowhere, really, and gets us even less far.



"... possibly to cope with it..."

Ironically perhaps, if humanity really ever becomes unstuck world-wide, e.g. by a combination of resources depletion and inimical climate, let alone wars; the more technically advanced we are the harder we might find coping, due to our reliance on what science and engineering have given us.

As the last Glacial Phase of the present Ice Age came and went the people around at the time would simply have moved to more equable regions. As the sea-level rose they would have drifted to higher ground - I don't know the greatest rate of change but would think significant over some generations, not within individuals' lives. It was relatively easy for them as there were far fewer of them, they probably lived as nomads, and they had much simpler societies.

[

@Learninglife9 Interesting!

A new idea to me, and I wonder if the planet has also lost water back into Space, rather as Mars may have done.

I know it's already been suggested that plate tectonics need a wet world anyway, because the water and wet sea-floor ooze act as lubricants in the thrust-plane, and also as flux to help the melting as the subducted rock sinks into the Mantle. Though they also have a dark side because along with the rock's chemistry they make their resulting volcanic eruptions very gassy and explosive.

What the article does not make clear is that it also needs a viscous Mantle, still kept hot by radioactive decay; and that the Earth's Crust is not homogenous but thick slabs of granite (the continents) surrounded by thinner basalt (ocean floor).

I would suggest that prior to plate-tectonics getting under way to break, collide, distort, raise or lower it, the land was mainly very low-lying and fairly flat. So perhaps not needing a vastly higher sea-level to inundate it than we see now, which appears to have been near-average as cold and warm Ice Age phases can lower or raise it considerably about this level.

@ArishMell

Unknown if any of the water went back into space.
But science does say within the rocks surrounding the mantle is more water than on the surface of the Earth.

https://www.iflscience.com/there-is-a-massive-ocean-of-water-underneath-our-feet-68099

https://www.bnl.gov/newsroom/news.php?a=111648

[media=https://youtu.be/vj0zL1SZzNY?si=w-bzJN9YyYkEo5Z1]

@ArishMell

Replying to your last paragraph scientists have basically explained their findings on what they think happened how they think this that or the other occurred.

Your ideas are given to the wrong person you need to converse with a geologist.

And I just have to reiterate scripture does not say how the Lord did what he did. Whatever he did the basics in quite a few cases that is written in scripture, science now has determined to be true.

The scribes did not have the craft of writing in ways that the educated people of today feel they have accomplished _ but a lot of what the scribes said has made factual points. And for some reason God allowed it to be like that until the last days when knowledge would increase and people will be running to and fro as written in Daniel's 12:4. And in the past 200 years knowledge has jumped extraordinarily.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything just pointing out scripture.

@Learninglife9 Curious - your post raised a notification on my normal e-post list. I don't normally have that so must have mis-keyed something.

I know how science works, and I took an adult-education course in Geology some years ago.

I agree that the Bible - or any other holy book - does not try to explain anything, only express a basic belief that God (or any other creative deity) did it. Fair enough. Not my belief but I accept others do believe it.

The ancient Middle Eastern scribes were intelligent people but they could not forecast anything happening in the natural world beyond saying, simply but perfectly logically, that it will happen again.


The expansion of knowledge in the last two millennia BCE (the era in which most of the original Hebrew books were written) would have been far slower than it is now, but was probably enough to be noticeable. It was during the Late Bronze Age in that part of the world, with a lot of trading around the Mediterranean and further afield, so ideas and knowledge would have spread with it.

Indeed, although we can't say where and when copper and tin, and their alloys, were discovered, it must have greatly encouraged trade between many different regions and cultures, due to the ores being found only in definite, very widely spread, places. Looking at beautifully made Bronze Age items in museums, it was clear the metal must have been something of a wonder material to people who previously knew only stone, bone and wood.


I don't know what Daniel really meant by "people running to and fro", but he was right there! Human nature seems no different now from a few thousand years ago, as there is certainly a lot of running to and fro. Also, knowledge is increasing at a rate Daniel and his contemporaries could never have imagined; but again, his prediction there is really only a logical surmise from ordinary experience. He and the other prophets were just the intellectuals of their society and day, but at least they seem to have observed human behaviour a bit more rationally than some other cultures did.

We have to be careful of course. We cannot think for them, so remotely in time and place from their lives. So it is too easy to misinterpret their words and intended messages - or what have come down to us as said to be theirs.

.

That is hardly a scientific approach, but I do credit them for thinking a lot more logically than the inventors of most of their contemporary religions around the region, such as the bizarre polytheisms of the Greeks and Romans. The main background religion for the Hebrews seems to have been Zoroastrian, which has two gods - of good and bad - but I don't know how much the early Judaism adopted from it.

@ArishMell

enjoy your life

@Learninglife9 I do, thank you. And you, yours.