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Democrats' negotiating strategy can be summed up in one word

Good news for the incoming House Democratic majority! They have something President Trump really, really wants: money to build a border wall. Trump is desperate for this money. Mexico won't give it to him. Only congressional Democrats can. Without their consent, he can't deliver on one of the key campaign promises he made during the 2016 election.

There's a name for this in classic negotiating strategy. It's called "leverage." Good negotiators use leverage (something they have, which their adversary wants) to obtain what are called "concessions" (something their adversary has, which they want). The result is what experts call "compromise." This is how the civilized world gets things done.

But in a fit of pique, Democrats are throwing away their leverage, insisting that they will never -- under any circumstances -- give Trump the wall he so desperately wants. The reason? Because he wants it and they despise him.

There is a name for this in negotiating strategy as well. It's called "insanity."

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/marc-thiessen-democrats-negotiating-strategy-can-be-summed-up-in-one-word
Budwick
70-79, M
24 replies 71 views Dec 13, 2018
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firefall · 61-69, M
Your ignorance is complete. The Democrats offered a deal last year, and agreed with Trump (funding in return for protection for those under DACA). Then the Republicans jerked the rug out from under the deal and refused it. The Republicans who did that were in the Senate, and they still control the Senate, so really there is no upside for the Democrats to negotiate this again, knowing that the other side only negotiate in bad faith.

And the reason the dont want the wall ISNT because he wants it, its because it's a moronic waste of money that will have no effect on illegal immigration.

Listening to Torturemonger Thiessen is 100% guaranteed to have you deceived by one of the most evil men currently in politics
+ 3 · Reply · Translate · Dec 13, 2018
Budwick · 70-79, M
@firefall OK, I get it - border security is a non issue for you.
You are in a minority, but, that's OK.

They have no other reason to not build border security - if only like THEY wanted to a few short years ago! They simply don't think they can spend the political capital and compromise on anything! IN the same way you can only respond opening with rude insults!
+ 1 · Reply · Translate · Dec 13, 2018 · Edited: 5 yrs ago
SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
@firefall It was a negotiation between Schumer and Trump. Trump offered the deal to Republicans and they rejected it, saying they wanted to address the visa lottery system and chain migration as well.

It fell apart after that. There was no deal that was jerked out from the Dems by Repubs. It was a failed negotiation on the part of both sides.

The wall is not a waste of money. Walls work, see Israel, the Berlin Wall and the Great Wall of China.
+ 2 · Reply · Translate · Dec 14, 2018
windinhishair · 61-69, M
Why would it be insanity to refuse to do something that is morally reprehensible, throws money away on nothing, doesn't address the immigration issue, and is rooted in hatred of others? Seems to me that their approach is the right one.

You wouldn't let a serial killer in custody out to kill someone else as a last kill if he would confess to his other murders, even if that's what he held out as leverage. Leverage is not absolute and done in a vacuum.
+ 2 · Reply · Translate · Dec 14, 2018
windinhishair · 61-69, M
@SumKindaMunster I am concerned with how hatred in our country is expressed. It has nothing to do with how I perceive immigrants feel. Hatred diminishes all of us.

Border crossings have been trending down for years, so you cannot attribute it solely to Trump's policies, though those might have further reduced it.

You are correct that my personal experience isn't as important as the opinions of experts, most of whom believe that the wall is a very bad idea and will not be effective.

Even if a border wall further reduces illegal immigration, the real question is whether the cost is worth it. And that's where it falls flat. It isn't worth it in any way. You could accomplish the same thing with increased personnel (hey, those are jobs!!!), increased surveillance using drones, motion detectors, and other technology.
They work, they are being employed in places right now, and they can be employed elsewhere. We can also increase penalties for employers who hire illegal immigrants, including Trump properties where he employs illegals. The bottom line is we don't have the money to waste on a wall that won't work.
+ 2 · Reply · Translate · Dec 14, 2018
SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
I appreciate your responses. I am in favor of using new technologies, including the ones you listed to assist in reducing illegal immigration as well as increasing penalties for those that hire illegals. I am open to a comprehensive package that addresses border security and illegal immigration and realize in America, a deal is a compromise, and nobody gets everything they want.

Otherwise I don't agree with the other things you said, for reasons already expressed.

Thank you for being civil and staying on point.
+ 1 · Reply · Translate · Dec 14, 2018
windinhishair · 61-69, M
@SumKindaMunster Thank you as well. We obviously disagree, but I respect your opinion. I would like to see a bipartisan bill that is focused on real immigration reform, to include issues on immigrants that are already here. Sadly, I don't see that happening any time soon. The political will just isn't there for either party to do it.
+ 3 · Reply · Translate · Dec 14, 2018
Heartlander · 80-89, M
I think there's more to it than the leverage part. Democrat VOTERS.

The more illegals (AKA undocumented aliens), the greater the representation that Democrats have in the House of Representatives.

Follow the trail:

- illegals (AKA undocumented aliens) enter the US and go mostly to sanctuary states.
- Sanctuary states/cities are all Democrat controlled.
- How many House members states are allocated is determined by the census count.
- illegals (AKA undocumented aliens) are counted in the census.

To run the math, every one million illegal (AKA undocumented alien) that reaches California and gets counted in the census eventually turns into one additional Representative for the state of California, and one less Representative for a non-sanctuary state. Another ten million illegals represents another 20 member swing in the House of Representatives.

Republicans and Trump had leverage: HEALTHCARE! And they blew it. They had a chance to make healthcare fair and available for everyone in America. Who the heck is pulling Republican strings? Certainly not rank and file Republicans, nor conservatives, nor the voters. Hmmm let me guess??? Insurance companies? Drug makers?
+ 1 · Reply · Translate · Dec 14, 2018
Heartlander · 80-89, M
The message coming from House Democrats is that they are willing to harm America if they think it will help them get the upper hand on President Trump.
+ 2 · Reply · Translate · Apr 18, 2019
Zonuss · 41-45, M
@Heartlander Trump has already harmed America and some of his base is leaving him. Trump's rhetoric is backfiring. And his legacy will be tainted forever. ☺️
+ 1 · Reply · Translate · Apr 18, 2019
AbbeyRhode · F
+ 3 · Reply · Translate · Apr 18, 2019
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
The democrats are quite willing to give Trump money for the wall - or the paltry 5 billion he’s asking for anyhow.

They’re just not willing to do it for nothing. Yeah, they have leverage. Republicans will have to make some concessions.
+ 0 · Reply · Translate · Dec 14, 2018 · Edited: 5 yrs ago
Budwick · 70-79, M
@QuixoticSoul How about doing it for the good of the country?
+ 1 · Reply · Translate · Dec 14, 2018
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
As already mentioned , the great dealmaker was offered the money last year , agreed it .... and then , unbelievably , turned it down.

Do you have a term also for this negotiating strategy?
+ 0 · Reply · Translate · Dec 14, 2018
Budwick · 70-79, M
@RodionRomanovitch I would look for all the sticky little strings that may have been attached to the offer.
+ 0 · Reply · Translate · Dec 14, 2018
Zonuss · 41-45, M
Democrats ran the House for 30 years. Democrats had a US president named FDR who had the longest run of all presidents. Democrats gave us a budget surplus in 1998. Democrats never had a president who resigned. And with Obama looking better than Trump at this point speaks volumes. I think you get the point...
+ 2 · Reply · Translate · Apr 18, 2019
 
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