I Am Interested In Politics

@Notme123abc "Windmills cause cancer, coal is clean" The 1984 metaphor gets tossed around a lot but this is seriously similar

@Notme123abc [quote]He's doing everything he can to undermine alternative energy sources[/quote]

There's really not much to do Not. None of the alternative energy sources work very well. Maybe someday they will, but today is not the day. Especially when your knot head leadership gives us choices like AOC, let's all modify our lifestyles like we live in the 1800's - well, not all, just everyone but her.

Get something working - THEN, let's talk!

@Budwick It is working. As I said earlier I have a neighbor that is using solar to power his house during the daytime (and he works from home) and has received enough ROI to have paid for the same solar panels in two years. When he isn't working from home his meter is running backwards. Sounds like it's working.

Wind turbines are cutting the need for us to burn coal, oil or natural gas to generate electricity. Iowa generates more electricity with Wind than any other state. The idea isn't to outright replace coal/oil/gas, but to deplete the dependency on them. One of the links I shared shows we have 53 years of oil left in the world according to BP. If our alternatives aren't working then we need to get them working VERY soon. The argument that it isn't working doesn't fly when we see there are results from alternative energy sources.
The link below shows the % of US energy coming from renewable resources is on the rise. If it isn't working then why are we continuing to see this number go up? If you have proof that it isn't working at all please show the links with the studies so we can see them. Simply stating it doesn't work without proof is the same as spitting into the wind. It just makes yourself messy.

https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2016/08/renewable-energy-was-16-9-percent-of-u-s-electric-generation-in-the-first-half-of-2016.html

@Notme123abc [quote]It is working.[/quote] I understand - someplaces have working wind power. I don't deny that windpower or solar works. They're simply not efficient enough to replace oil or other conventional energy sources - yet.

I DO like one thing you said - [quote]The idea isn't to outright replace coal/oil/gas, but to deplete the dependency on them.[/quote] And, those willing to be part of the experiment will be learning about how to improve the technology along the way.

They have been telling us for decades that oil is about to run out. I understand that there is a finite amount - but science has blown it's credibility. I don't believe them.

I live in NE Ohio - I've looked into solar as a supplement for our heat. Turns out this part of the country has too many cloudy days - and solar is too inefficient to be useful in cloudy areas.

The alternative energy market is developing. I'm all for it. I don't appreciate the alarmist POV however. Let the market develop at it's own pace. If alarmists keep pushing, you;re gonna go the way of climate change fanatics and dinosaurs.

@Budwick I like the balanced discussion and understand your POV. I believe you're someone I could continue to have an effective conversation and one that while sometimes contentious may challenge me to continue digging. Thanks for the discussion.

As for efficiency we are looking at similar losses for fossil fuel powered vs. Solar/Wind (if stored) at around 35 to 45% depending on where you are. I just posted something about that with a couple of links.

@Notme123abc [quote]I like the balanced discussion and understand your POV[/quote]Right back at ya! I garden, I plant trees, I raise cuttings from trees and shrubs to give away - I compost - I compost a lot! I'll be harvesting some 'black gold' in the next few weeks.

In other words, I am not deaf to taking care of our home - planet Earth. A section of our property has been certified as a Wildlife habitat.

I'm on your team. I want to see the technology develop. I'm open to try it - when I can afford it, when it makes sense.

Gotcha. Thanks for the convo. This has been enjoyable.

@Budwick [quote] Let the market develop at it's own pace.[/quote] Just imagine where we'd be if we let the space and nuclear markets develop on their own 🤔

Markets aren't magical things, they're incredible at finding local minimums, but market actors generally don't have the luxury of truly long-term thinking. That's why we have other institutions for that sort of thing.

@QuixoticSoul [quote]we have other institutions for that sort of thing.[/quote]

What institutions might those be? Cuz there's isn't anyone in government that knows shit about any of the crap they pass laws about.

Then you have that solar company Obama backed to the tune of a half billion for Solyndra a couple weeks before they went bankrupt and made donations to his campaign.

Markets find the best values to the end user.

@Budwick Yeah, ceding the market to the Chinese and [i]their[/i] subsidized industry was totally the right way to go 👍

@QuixoticSoul Now what tangent are you on?
Subsidized markets?
Well, that sounds like government intervention fucking things up to me.

@Budwick Due to our under-investment in solar, the Chinese have come to absolutely dominate the market. A little history.

[quote]In the early 2000s, recognizing the growing international demand for solar power resulting from installation subsidies in Europe, China began focusing on exports and classified the PV industry as a key industry moving forward. Due to this classification, PV manufacturers qualified for financial support in the form of export credits, guarantees, and insurance. The government’s promotion of solar PV production rapidly influenced China’s role in the global market. In 2003, China’s market share of solar cell and module production stood at 1.6 percent; in 2007, China became the global leader in solar production with a market share of 27 percent.

China then solidified its role as the world’s solar PV manufacturing leader following the global financial crisis in 2008. Due to a government stimulus package to fund key industries, the China Development Bank (CDB) opened a US $30 billion line of credit for solar cell and module manufacturers in China. Even though Chinese firms had to pay high market rates on their loans, Chinese manufacturers still had access to funding when commercial banks and private investors in the West were not interested in funding solar. Financed by these investments, China’s global share of PV cell manufacturing nearly doubled from 2009 to 2011, rising from 32 percent to 60 percent.[/quote]

Btw, Trump is trying some government intervention in that arena now - through tariffs on Chinese solar panels. But too little too late.

@QuixoticSoul Why do you suppose we were under invested?
Maybe, no believed ANYONE had something marketable.
Precisely my point.

You try to make everything about Trump.
Weak.

@Budwick Not everything is about Trump, Obama and Bush fucked that one up - I'm just giggling at the whining about market intervention. See, China did theirs right, and we fucked ours up.

@QuixoticSoul [quote]China did theirs right, and we fucked ours up.
[/quote]

Yeah?
Have you ordered your Chinese solar system yet?

@Budwick My building went German, but why does this matter? 70% of people around the world are buying Chinese.

@QuixoticSoul Hey, you were the one that dragged my conversation with another user in this direction.

Next time, butt out!

@Budwick No actually you brought up the solar investment situation 😂