I Am Christian

The number one argument against God always seems to be "If there's a God, why do bad things happen to good people?"

But God never promised to give us these ideal, perfect lives where nothing ever challenges us or tests us. After all, the Son of God and Saviour of the world was born in a stable and wrapped up in a burlap cloth. - What does that say? He is no less a king and no less powerful, and God certainly loves Him.

Its not about ideal circumstances where everything is perfect and we never have to cry, never have to struggle or never experience pain. Jesus himself said, "why hath thou forsaken me?" to show we ALL experience that point where we feel we're about to break.

Jesus was God in human form, an incredibly vulnerable state. But God walked among this earth, just like the rest of us to show: Yes, faith is enough and yes, I will never leave you nor forsake you.

I have learned through my pain and I'm strong because I have struggled. My faith is my greatest achievement in life and it grew because I had to LEARN how to trust God in EVERY situation.

If my life was perfect then I would have the same faith as an infant- never learning to walk in God.

This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »

SW-User

"[i]But God never promised to give us these ideal, perfect lives where nothing ever challenges us or tests us[/i]" - 17,000 innocent children die every day because they suffer from Pneumonia or Malaria - what exactly is meant to be "challenging" or "testing" about that? They don't even stand a chance. It doesn't sound like a test to me, but a sick joke inflicted by a psychotic God (that is, if your God exists).

What kind of "loving" being wouldn't want us to live a perfect life? What kind of "loving" being would inflict that much suffering upon innocent children?

CoCoPuffs · 26-30, F

@TheOrdinaryGuy: if you think that to love someone is to give them this prefect life then that's your opinion. I would want the person that I love to be strong. I wouldn't want my kid growing up in a fantasy where he's just drifting because everything's been handed to him....that's just unrealistic and cruel because at the first sign of trouble, they'll have no clue how to cope.

Also, those numbers are alarming and its really so sad those innocent lives are lost. But who said there wouldn't be death, tragedy and loss? Jesus died...

SW-User

"to love someone is to give them this prefect life" - absolutely it is - that's what I'd want for the ones I love. And if I was God, I certainly wouldn't create diseases that caused innocent children to suffer.

"growing up in a fantasy" - Wait, it's not a fantasy if you have the power to make it reality. God assumingly has the power to make our fantasies of the greatest possible world a reality, yet he chose this world with immense suffering and chaos?

Jesus died... at the ripe of age of 33. And chose to live the life he lived, and take the risks he did, knowing he'd ultimately end up in Heaven (eternal happiness). Not really much of a sacrifice.

On the other hand, these 17,000 children who'll die today made no choice - they were stricken with disease against their will and killed before they were even old enough to discover who God is.

I'm glad you didn't try to defend the indefensible actions of God though.

CoCoPuffs · 26-30, F

@TheOrdinaryGuy: Its your fantasy and opinion that if you were God, that would be the correct choice of action. But you are not God and this is reality- the world we live in is not perfect or ideal. I'm okay with that, I have peace with that and I still lend a helping hand. I still love the Lord, and always will.

Jesus went to heaven because He believed...we call can. That's no mystery. And he did sacrifice...what He did gives us all the right to go to heaven if we so choose. Also, Jesus knew He was going to die- if you knew you were going to die tomorrow would you be able to make peace with it and accept Him? I don't think what He did was a small thing at all but because He did, I have the choice to say yes! Do you?

Also there's alot in life that I won't have a say in or control over, including my death. Unfortunately neither does anyone or those kids...but they have a choice that when they die they CAN see heaven. They're innocent as you said, and know no sin.

Jesus died for us ALL. I don't have to defend God...He can do that and plus some.

SW-User

"I still love the Lord, and always will." - can't argue with that.

"would you be able to make peace with it and accept Him?" - nope. I don't think he's a saviour, and I think the Bible only shows just how abhorrent a character God is. It'd be hypocritical for me to do so.

"Unfortunately neither does anyone or those kids" - Of course someone has control over their suffering. God. And he could cease all their suffering immediately, but doesn't. Either that means he's inept, or evil - either way, not worthy of my worship.

WellWellNow, for what it's worth - I think you're a better, more moral being than the God you believe in.

CoCoPuffs · 26-30, F

Mr. OrdinaryGuy,

I am the person that I am because of God! And I appreciate the compliment, as well as your candor.

I have a feeling that you look at God as being mean or passive for the way the world is... But what if you looked at it like this-

Say God did give us long lasting life, we never failed, we never struggled and He just chilled out with us at bonfires.

How will we learn humility, compassion and hard work if we never had to use them? How will we ever know what it means to love someone if we never loss? If pain, anger and fear never existed then how would we grow?

We'd be stuck here. Just existing in happy go lucky land without a clue as to what it means to have faith.

But you may feel that you're just stuck here, existing already...because you don't have faith.

So honestly...what do you have to lose if you got to know Him for yourself, instead of judging Him by what you perceive?

SW-User

"How will we learn humility, compassion and hard work if we never had to use them?" - but there's a difference between putting us in a world with hardships where we have to face adversity, and putting us in a world full of disease, famine and natural disasters.

The latter isn't challenging who we are as people, it's just causing unnecessary suffering.

"How will we ever know what it means to love someone if we never loss?" - are you saying you can't love someone until someone you know dies? I don't know about you, but I understood love way before I experienced losing a loved one. You can experience one without the other.

I don't have faith, no - but I do have an adept understanding of human well-being and flourishing, which is how I can assess the actions of God and call them immoral, and it's how I can call you a good person who understands compassion.

"what do you have to lose if you got to know Him for yourself" - everything, because what if I get the wrong God? What if Islam is right? What if Hinduism is right, or Sikhism? I have everything to lose.

Dreammmer · 56-60, M

@TheOrdinaryGuy: What are you doing today to help those children? That is the only relevant question.

SW-User

@Dreammmer: Hi Dreammmer. It most certainly isn't a relevant question. A relevant question would be "What would you do if you had the power of God", and my answer would be simple - to remove all disease, and not make countless numbers of children suffer and die every day.

Alas, I'm only human, so can only limit human suffering to a certain degree - and yet I still do a better job than God. For instance, donating to those causes who seek to cure said diseases, and to help those less fortunate in my local area.

But an all powerful God seems strangely absent...

Dreammmer · 56-60, M

@TheOrdinaryGuy: He created you to be a responsible, social and caring man. Now dont blame God if you dont want to be what God wants you to be. Do you do everything in your power to help others? have you encouraged others to do everything in their power to help? To claim that you are only human is no excuse that is valid and acceptable.

SW-User

"[i]He created you[/i]" - no, he didn't. With all due respect, you first have to prove a God exists, and then that your [i]specific[/i] God exists, before you can start going around claiming to know what he created.

"[i]God wants you to be[/i]" - a mindless worshipper who, instead of working towards the betterment of human well-being and flourishing, follows the capricious whims of a psychotic dictator who gets a kick out of pain and suffering?

"[i]Do you do everything in your power to help others?[/i]" - probably not. But I'm only one man. God on the other hand could single-handedly end unnecessary human suffering in an instant, and yet decides to do nothing.

Like I said to WellWellNow, I think both you and I are better and more moral beings than your God. Especially if the Bible is anything to go by...

Dreammmer · 56-60, M

@TheOrdinaryGuy: At the end of your life no one cares about all your arguments why you did not help others and why Christians are wrong and why you are right blah blah blah
Real people need help and you can do something, you can make sacrifices and you dont even need to believe in God to help others. Dont waste my time with your nonsense. Live without God. But start helping those in need and stop blaming God or others for not helping.

SW-User

@Dreammmer: "[i]blah blah blah[/i]" - you certainly know how to debate like an adult.

"[i]Real people need help[/i]" - yes, they need real help from real people, not a fictitious God. Which is why I help.

"[i]stop blaming God[/i]" - sorry, but I can't do that. The blame is square on his shoulders for the unnecessary suffering in the world - that's nothing to do with me. I'm merely part of the resolution, not the problem.

"[i]Dont waste my time with your nonsense.[/i]" - you're not one of those peaceful loving types of Christian then.

The only one wasting your time friend, is you - you do know you don't have to keep responding to me, right?