I Hate Being Put On A Guilt Trip
I'M FEELING ANOTHER RANT COMING ON.
The following is from a discussion I had with someone who promptly blocked me. I admit, I did carry the discussion on to his next question. He didn't like that, and he blocked me. That's his right.
The thing is, the discussion seemed as if he was sincere in his beliefs, but in his next post, he was contradicting everything he said here.
This is the discussion. It began with the question he asked about the woman who didn't stop her husband from starving two kids in their basement, in spite of the fact that she was aware of what he was doing.
He asked if people in first world countries weren't doing this exact same thing by living in luxury while third world citizens are starving.
Him
That's a very interesting question. Working hard should give you the right to live comfortably, but do you feel that you deserve luxury more than fellow humans in third world countries deserve to live?
Me
Let's see if I can express myself without offending anyone and still make my point.
I live in Canada; not in a third world country. Am I happy about the starving children in other countries? No. am I happy about the kids who are hungry and abused and abandoned right here in Canada? No.
I have lived here my whole life. Raised my four daughters with no help from their father. I worked. I was lucky. I was persistent. I wasn't too prideful to take any job I could get.
If I could afford to alleviate the hunger all over the world, I would. But I can't. If I could afford to alleviate the hunger, here in my own country, I would. But I can't.
In the face of such huge numbers, I am helpless and can't even think about trying to save the world. Do I feel guilty? No I don't. Those people aren't starving BECAUSE of me.
Now, we come to the point of this story. Two starving children in my own basement, and I let it happen. All I have to do is speak up. Call the authorities. Save those two children, that I can do something about. If I don't help them, I am not insensitive, I am a criminal.
Would I feel guilty? No. because I wouldn't let it happen one minute longer than it took to call someone and get down in the basement to save them.
Does it make me a better person? You bet it does.
Him
That's a good way to put it into perspective. The woman could have saved these two children all on her own, but we can only make a tiny contribution to saving all humans from starvation. That does make our neglect a lot less bad than hers indeed.
Still, I think many people are not entirely free from guilt. A lot of money is spent on more cars, bedrooms and food than we strictly need. If everyone would spend that on helping third world countries instead, together we could get rid of starvation and treatable diseases. But that doesn't happen because people think their contribution isn't going to make a difference and is therefore better kept to themselves.
I also realize there are plenty of people who are struggling in first world countries too and that some really couldn't help others at all. However, the people who can make a difference but don't do so because they don't believe they can, do share in the guilt in my opinion.
Me
I can't agree. Sorry. As people with families and jobs and lives to live, they shouldn't have to feel guilty because they live well, unless they are, by living well, actually CAUSING the problems.
Him
if actually causing the problem is a requirement for guilt, does that mean watching a fight in the street without doing anything doesn't make people guilty either? They are after all not actually causing the injuries.
Me
are you actually not understanding that there is a huge difference between an incident that you do have within your ability to affect, here and now, and a situation that is out of your range of possibility to do anything to change.
If I see someone fighting in the street and I have a cell phone or there is a payphone nearby, I can and would call for assistance to put a stop to it. I'm smallish, old, not strong. I'm not stepping in, but am not going to walk on by and let this happen.
I know that there are wars all over the place.....people fighting, killing, maiming each other in countries I am nowhere near. Whom would you suggest I call to put a stop to that? Must I feel guilty because people are killing each other? Should my neighbours who escaped the war zone and came to live here and raise their children in relative safety, feel guilty because there are still people killing each other in their homeland?
Do you feel guilty?
Him
I do understand that difference, but I believe it's a matter of scale rather than presence vs absence of influence. People who earn more than the minimum to support themselves can't solve starvation like with the two kids or witnessing a fight, but they can make a difference and yet they don't. Because their influence is little, so is their guilt, but neither is entirely absent.
Me
I disagree. The particular family I had in mind, when responding as I did, both work hard and make good money. They have three children. They take good care of their kids, they have a nice home. I don't know if they do or do not send money to other parts of the world, but I do know, that three times a year, Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas, they put together a large food basket for three under privileged families and in each of those baskets, is all good healthy food from each food group. There's enough to feed the families for several days. There is always a large roast of some kind, and lots of fresh fruits and vegetables. And the wife does a whole lot of baking for those baskets. I know about this because I was their cleaning lady and child care provider for 17 years and she got me to help her put things together in the boxes. If they don't send money to third world countries, they have no reason to feel guilty. Charity should start in your own country. When there is no more hunger in Canada, maybe the wealthier people can look overseas and help there.
As for the fighting, our young people are giving their lives, for what? To stop people across the ocean from killing each other? But there is no way that killing will stop as long as HATE exists. That hate has existed for hundreds, of years, perhaps thousands. I did peek at your profile, and I saw that you call yourself an idealist, so I know where you are coming from with this thinking, but being an idealist shouldn't blind you to reality. Immigrants and refugees immigrate and look for refuge because they know that there is nothing to be done to stop the insanity, so they leave it behind. I assign no blame and they shouldn't harbour any guilty feelings about escaping.
If you feel there is guilt to be borne, then it is yours to bear, not yours to assign to others.
Dec. 5/16
2:38 am
The following is from a discussion I had with someone who promptly blocked me. I admit, I did carry the discussion on to his next question. He didn't like that, and he blocked me. That's his right.
The thing is, the discussion seemed as if he was sincere in his beliefs, but in his next post, he was contradicting everything he said here.
This is the discussion. It began with the question he asked about the woman who didn't stop her husband from starving two kids in their basement, in spite of the fact that she was aware of what he was doing.
He asked if people in first world countries weren't doing this exact same thing by living in luxury while third world citizens are starving.
Him
That's a very interesting question. Working hard should give you the right to live comfortably, but do you feel that you deserve luxury more than fellow humans in third world countries deserve to live?
Me
Let's see if I can express myself without offending anyone and still make my point.
I live in Canada; not in a third world country. Am I happy about the starving children in other countries? No. am I happy about the kids who are hungry and abused and abandoned right here in Canada? No.
I have lived here my whole life. Raised my four daughters with no help from their father. I worked. I was lucky. I was persistent. I wasn't too prideful to take any job I could get.
If I could afford to alleviate the hunger all over the world, I would. But I can't. If I could afford to alleviate the hunger, here in my own country, I would. But I can't.
In the face of such huge numbers, I am helpless and can't even think about trying to save the world. Do I feel guilty? No I don't. Those people aren't starving BECAUSE of me.
Now, we come to the point of this story. Two starving children in my own basement, and I let it happen. All I have to do is speak up. Call the authorities. Save those two children, that I can do something about. If I don't help them, I am not insensitive, I am a criminal.
Would I feel guilty? No. because I wouldn't let it happen one minute longer than it took to call someone and get down in the basement to save them.
Does it make me a better person? You bet it does.
Him
That's a good way to put it into perspective. The woman could have saved these two children all on her own, but we can only make a tiny contribution to saving all humans from starvation. That does make our neglect a lot less bad than hers indeed.
Still, I think many people are not entirely free from guilt. A lot of money is spent on more cars, bedrooms and food than we strictly need. If everyone would spend that on helping third world countries instead, together we could get rid of starvation and treatable diseases. But that doesn't happen because people think their contribution isn't going to make a difference and is therefore better kept to themselves.
I also realize there are plenty of people who are struggling in first world countries too and that some really couldn't help others at all. However, the people who can make a difference but don't do so because they don't believe they can, do share in the guilt in my opinion.
Me
I can't agree. Sorry. As people with families and jobs and lives to live, they shouldn't have to feel guilty because they live well, unless they are, by living well, actually CAUSING the problems.
Him
if actually causing the problem is a requirement for guilt, does that mean watching a fight in the street without doing anything doesn't make people guilty either? They are after all not actually causing the injuries.
Me
are you actually not understanding that there is a huge difference between an incident that you do have within your ability to affect, here and now, and a situation that is out of your range of possibility to do anything to change.
If I see someone fighting in the street and I have a cell phone or there is a payphone nearby, I can and would call for assistance to put a stop to it. I'm smallish, old, not strong. I'm not stepping in, but am not going to walk on by and let this happen.
I know that there are wars all over the place.....people fighting, killing, maiming each other in countries I am nowhere near. Whom would you suggest I call to put a stop to that? Must I feel guilty because people are killing each other? Should my neighbours who escaped the war zone and came to live here and raise their children in relative safety, feel guilty because there are still people killing each other in their homeland?
Do you feel guilty?
Him
I do understand that difference, but I believe it's a matter of scale rather than presence vs absence of influence. People who earn more than the minimum to support themselves can't solve starvation like with the two kids or witnessing a fight, but they can make a difference and yet they don't. Because their influence is little, so is their guilt, but neither is entirely absent.
Me
I disagree. The particular family I had in mind, when responding as I did, both work hard and make good money. They have three children. They take good care of their kids, they have a nice home. I don't know if they do or do not send money to other parts of the world, but I do know, that three times a year, Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas, they put together a large food basket for three under privileged families and in each of those baskets, is all good healthy food from each food group. There's enough to feed the families for several days. There is always a large roast of some kind, and lots of fresh fruits and vegetables. And the wife does a whole lot of baking for those baskets. I know about this because I was their cleaning lady and child care provider for 17 years and she got me to help her put things together in the boxes. If they don't send money to third world countries, they have no reason to feel guilty. Charity should start in your own country. When there is no more hunger in Canada, maybe the wealthier people can look overseas and help there.
As for the fighting, our young people are giving their lives, for what? To stop people across the ocean from killing each other? But there is no way that killing will stop as long as HATE exists. That hate has existed for hundreds, of years, perhaps thousands. I did peek at your profile, and I saw that you call yourself an idealist, so I know where you are coming from with this thinking, but being an idealist shouldn't blind you to reality. Immigrants and refugees immigrate and look for refuge because they know that there is nothing to be done to stop the insanity, so they leave it behind. I assign no blame and they shouldn't harbour any guilty feelings about escaping.
If you feel there is guilt to be borne, then it is yours to bear, not yours to assign to others.
Dec. 5/16
2:38 am
