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Evolution: is it necessary to know how life ultimately began in order to study and debate the evidence that evolution has since occurred? [Spirituality & Religion]

If you think it is, why do you think so? Can you explain that reasoning for me?

I ask because i've encountered a creationist's position that the evidence for evolution can be ignored if we don't know how life began.
I point out that the theory of gravitation still allows us to study the interactions of matter without knowing how it came to be but this apt comparison appears to be ignored.

Since i've received no explanation from the parties involved, i'm coming to YOU!
So. Thoughts?馃檪

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QuixoticSoul41-45, M
Working with the evidence you have, instead of knowing everything from the get-go, is kind of the [i]point[/i] of science. Which people who advocate pointless navel-gazing usually miss.
Speedyman70-79, M
The problem is you have no evidence to work with. But like most atheist you probably believe in magic@QuixoticSoul
QuixoticSoul41-45, M
@Speedyman We're drowning in evidence.
Speedyman70-79, M
You're drowning in magic. Can I ask you what evidence you have that non-living natter assembles itself into living cells by unguided forces? @QuixoticSoul
QuixoticSoul41-45, M
@Speedyman

Can i ask you why it is necessary to know how life began in order to observe its evolution?
Speedyman70-79, M
You have a talent for not being able to see the obvious! 馃槃馃槃馃槃@Pikachu
@Speedyman



Hee hee hee! 馃槅

Oh speedy...why? [i]Why[/i] are you under the impression that obviously, transparently and repeatedly avoiding giving an answer does [i]anything[/i] but broadcast your inability to do so?
I mean, you [i]get[/i] that, right? Even if you genuinely believe you're correct, you understand that retreating over and over and over again from such a simple question only highlights the frailty of your position, yes?

Time to put up or shut up.

If you think that we must know how life began in order to observe the evidence for its subsequent evolution and then make your case now.
Now deflections, no insults, no [i]excuses[/i], speedy.
Just a direct answer to a direct question.
I'd love to see if you can do that.

When you fail yet again to even respond the the question (and yes, we both know you are going to fail) then i hope you will have the intellectual integrity to simply admit that you cannot and will not answer the question rather than continuing to play your silly little games.
Speedyman70-79, M
Typically unintelligent response from the arch player of games. If you're going to play stupid games why do you have to be such a loser all the time!馃槃馃槃馃槃馃槃 @Pikachu
@Speedyman

So to be clear:

[c=#BF0080]Me: If you think that we must know how life began in order to observe the evidence for its subsequent evolution and then make your case now[/c]

[c=#804600]You: Typically unintelligent response, don't be such a loser[/c]

Mmmmhmm.馃槒
Rather speaks for itself, doesn't it.

What a strange world must exist inside your head that you believe asking a direct question with the expectation of a direct answer constitutes playing games....

Nevertheless, i shall give you a little more rope with which to hang yourself.

Answer this question if you are able:
If you think that we must know how life began in order to observe the evidence for its subsequent evolution and then make your case now.
Speedyman70-79, M
My dear little brainless friend, you have hung yourself about dozen times. You're out you fool I'm being such an idiot you don't even know it . You just tell me how those little bits and pieces formed themselves into living cells and we'll start discussing your evolutionary bit. If you don't know how something starts how can you knw your argument is valid? Sorry mate you've had more than three strikes and you're out ! The only problem is you're so into a wave of delusion and I think you actually think you're intelligent and smart. That is another strike against you. Delusion ! You poor fool! 馃槃馃槃馃槃馃槃馃槃 @Pikachu
@Speedyman

[quote]I'm being such an idiot you don't even know it [/quote]

Uhhh....no i definitely know it lol馃槈

Speedyman70-79, M
My dear little silly friend Who plays around with childish images instead of thinking for himself. You were struck out ages ago . You have nothing of words to say yourself and nothing of work to argue with. Strike 3+ with you! Now run away and play with your toys. As the Good Book says of people like you:
"You cannot separate fools from their foolishness,
even though you grind them like grain with mortar and pestle." 馃槃馃槃馃槃@Pikachu
newjaninev256-60, F
@Speedyman [quote]how those little bits and pieces[/quote]

That鈥檒l be my pleasure... let鈥檚 do exactly that!

We鈥檒l start with a cell (I鈥檒l make it a fairly simple cell to save time) and we鈥檒l work backwards in time, small piece by small piece, and I鈥檒l show you how complex structures are composed from ever simpler previously existing components.

I鈥檒l give you a lesson in emergent properties.
newjaninev256-60, F
@Speedyman [quote]If you don't know how something starts[/quote]

First we鈥檇 better tidy up one of your errors... it鈥檚 a common error.

You seem to be assuming that life has to be cellular.

Nope, not so. Not even a little bit. Life is a self-sustaining chemical system capable of Darwinian evolution, and the first life wasn鈥檛 cellular (the odds against the first life being cellular are so enormous as to be dismissable)

Nothing says life has to be cellular, and in fact, it鈥檚 highly likely that when we finally identify extra-terrestrial life it [i]won't[/i] be cellular>
@Speedyman

I'm not asking you to debate evolution,speedy.
I'm simply challenging to explain your reasoning.
I mean, i assume you thought it through before you opened your mouth and made that claim, right? Or at least that's what i'd assume if you didn't keep retreating from this [i]simple[/i] question.

Speedyman70-79, M
I'm asking you to give some reasoning and explain how your evolution started. Strike 100 against you. But there again people like you who play with toys do not understand the real issues. Why don't you just go back to the nursery where you belong? I bet its way past your bedtime anyway ! @Pikachu
@Speedyman

Gonna call that a ball because i really just want to see you give me an honest reply.
No barbs, no deflections, no games.
Just straight talk.

I don't know how life ultimately began and so i have made no positive claim that i do.
The only positive claim i am making is that however life began, we can study its subsequent evolution. I'm happy to explain that reasoning although i don't expect you need me to.

You, speedy, have made the [i]positive[/i] claim that we must know how life began or we can't observe the way life since evolved.
All i'm asking for from you is to explain on what basis you feel that we cannot observe the evolution of life without knowing how life began.

Can you do that for me?
Thanks in advance.
Speedyman70-79, M
Time forl little like you to be in bed. Now up you go. Always remember if you try and think you will wear yourself out. You haven't done anything in whatsoever in your life so far so please don't start now or you might explode ! 馃槃馃槃馃槃馃槃@Pikachu
@Speedyman

*sigh*


Speedyman70-79, M
Don't forget to take yoyr teddy bear to bed with you. After all, it's more likely to give signs of intelligence than you, little boy! 馃槃馃槃馃槃馃槃@Pikachu
newjaninev256-60, F
@Speedyman [quote]do not understand the real issues[/quote]

There are no issues.

Abiogenesis is a different topic to evolution (or are you claiming that there鈥檚 no life on Earth)

Evolution by Natural Selection is well understood and observed.

Perhaps it will help you if we follow Voltaire鈥檚 advice and define our terms.

Evolution is change in the frequency and distribution of alleles.

Natural Selection is sex and death in a changing environment.

With that clarified, do you [i]now[/i] wish to discuss the evolution of cells?
@newjaninev2

[quote]Abiogenesis is a different topic to evolution[/quote]

Don't kid yourself.
He knows that. He knows that he can't justify it and that's why he utterly refuses to even try.
Turns out that when you think you have the answer, you tend to share it.

He's made his choice.
Dishonest is as dishonest does馃し馃徎
newjaninev256-60, F
@Speedyman Well, do you [i]now[/i] wish to discuss the evolution of cells?
Speedyman70-79, M
When you tell me how cells got there from non living matter. Don't forgive Darwin's work was postulating about origins which you refuse to tackle. The reason is because you are a fraud. @newjaninev2
Speedyman70-79, M
Reading what you put I belueve you could well have evolved from non-intelligent matter and the matter you are made up from now is completely non-intelligent! A most interesting case! 馃槃馃槃 @Pikachu