Where did "god" come from and why could the singularity that expanded into the universe not have occurred the same way? [Spirituality & Religion]

Some christians claim the universe is so complex it could not have occurred by random chance so must be the product of intelligent design. However, the "intelligent designer" must be even more complex so is far less likely to have occurred by random chance. The origin of that intelligent designer could be applied to the singularity which, being much simpler, is actually more likely.

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CopperCicada · M

The complexity argument is slippery.

One says that a toad is sufficiently complex... at least more complex than a rock or sand... so an entity must have designed it.

The first tripping point is that why does that creator need to be a deity? Why not an alien? Why not pan-spermia?

Another tripping point is that things around us are so complex that only a deity (or alien) could create them, not natural selection, then we're basically placing God behind a curtain of computational complexity. Can't know a toad, can't know God...

... but there's a tripping point there as the religious person would say that scripture says this and that about God... and that they have a personal relationship with God. So then that is a little uneasy. God is so complex and ineffable that he can make a giraffe, which is too complex for our little minds... but God tells us whether to get a #4 or a #5 at the McDonald's drive through...

... it seems that incongruity points to God and consciousness being co-emergent. It is said that consciousness is an epiphenomenon arising from complex matter. Maybe so is God? Or God is an emergent phenomenon arising from consciousness?

suzie1960 · 61-69, F

@CopperCicada [quote]Another tripping point is that things around us are so complex that only a deity (or alien) could create them, [/quote]
That just adds another, unnecessary, layer. If one goes down that path, as that creator must be even more complex only a superior creator could have created it. Any alternative explanation could more easily be applied to the things around us.

PhoenixPhail · M

Brilliant. I think we could have some good conversations.

Pikachu

Why is it ok to accept one un-caused cause but reject another?
I'm not sure i've ever received a meaningful answer to this question.

suzie1960 · 61-69, F

@Pikachu Last time I asked the question a certain christian, whom we have both crossed swords with, just called me an idiot. That's what he thinks constitutes reasoned argument. :)

PhoenixPhail · M

WOW. Now that's a really thought-provoking question. I'll have to give that some thought and get back to you.

Thank you for being brilliant.

Ironicman · 56-60, M

It's a mind blowing concept. Was there a beginning mastered by a God. And if there was, what was there before, Nothing? Does the state of nothing even exist? Are we just wrapped in a matrix of worm holes collapsing into one and popping up in a different universe, over and over again each billion or so years?

CookieLuvsBunny · 31-35, F

You have applied Occum's razor and reached the most likely scenario

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