I Think There Are Some Weird People In This World
So a school in Brighton is now telling children as young as 8 that "Boys can have periods too" to get rid of stigma around menstrual cycles.....
sorry...what
sorry...what
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Mamapolo2016 · F
I did some reading about this and it was quite a neat bit of magical direction reasoning that led up to this. The kind of reasoning that has always existed but is becoming more and more popular.
The assertion that 'boys can have periods too' is based on the experience of transgenders. If a transgender female who is transitioning to male has not had female organs removed and has not completed hormone replacement therapy, they can indeed still have periods until those changes take place. They may feel like and live like a boy but physically they have not yet stopped being female and hence have periods. This normally stops about a month after all phases of transition are completed.
I leave it to minds wiser than mine whether they are boys or girls at that point. Since as far as I can discover, the youngest transgender to complete the transformation is a 16 yr old German, it does not appear this information has a lot of application to 8 yr olds.
The assertion that 'boys can have periods too' is based on the experience of transgenders. If a transgender female who is transitioning to male has not had female organs removed and has not completed hormone replacement therapy, they can indeed still have periods until those changes take place. They may feel like and live like a boy but physically they have not yet stopped being female and hence have periods. This normally stops about a month after all phases of transition are completed.
I leave it to minds wiser than mine whether they are boys or girls at that point. Since as far as I can discover, the youngest transgender to complete the transformation is a 16 yr old German, it does not appear this information has a lot of application to 8 yr olds.
Bebop · 31-35, M
@Mamapolo2016 That's what confuses me about this further. I'm still in the camp that if you're giving your child hormone therapy when they don't even have a concept of their identity it should be child abuse.
I haven't read into a case like that yet but i've heard people say it's a good idea and i remember being really angry at how irresponsible that is.
There will always be boys and girls, it's just science. How it's percieved socially will change, but there will always be nature.
I haven't read into a case like that yet but i've heard people say it's a good idea and i remember being really angry at how irresponsible that is.
There will always be boys and girls, it's just science. How it's percieved socially will change, but there will always be nature.
Mamapolo2016 · F
@Bebop What has happened in the past and may well be picking up momentum, is the idea that the end justifies the means. It's okay to do almost anything if your purpose is, in your view, beneficial to humanity.
Given that parents, who wield almost total power over their children, can be just as fanatical as childless people, this is dangerous.
My opinion, free and worth every penny, is that children should not receive piercings, tattoos, or hormone therapy, until they have arrived at whatever society believes to be an age of reason.
Some scientists use their own offspring as test subjects, often in research that appears benign but may result in 'unintended consequences."
From nytimes.com
Given that parents, who wield almost total power over their children, can be just as fanatical as childless people, this is dangerous.
My opinion, free and worth every penny, is that children should not receive piercings, tattoos, or hormone therapy, until they have arrived at whatever society believes to be an age of reason.
Some scientists use their own offspring as test subjects, often in research that appears benign but may result in 'unintended consequences."
From nytimes.com
Jonas Salk injected his children with his polio vaccine. Clarence Leuba, a psychologist, wondering if laughter in response to tickling was learned or innate, forbade tickling of his infant son and daughter, except when he tickled them, wearing a mask to hide his expression.
These days, scientists using human subjects are expected to seek approval from institutional review boards, which consider federal regulations on risk, coercion of subjects and researcher bias.
These days, scientists using human subjects are expected to seek approval from institutional review boards, which consider federal regulations on risk, coercion of subjects and researcher bias.
Bebop · 31-35, M
@Mamapolo2016 I think the fear is that if politics get too involved in medical science and it becomes acceptable to do that to a child, politically extreme parents might haphazardly tell their children that it's not a big deal and encourage them to do something they might regret when they're older, they're too impressionable at that age.
I just see a lot of consequences coming if this continues to be handled in the way it seems to be going.
If I have kids i'll have to move to Russia/Japan or something lol.
I'd be too scared of them getting told to do something like that.
I just see a lot of consequences coming if this continues to be handled in the way it seems to be going.
If I have kids i'll have to move to Russia/Japan or something lol.
I'd be too scared of them getting told to do something like that.
Mamapolo2016 · F
@Bebop It's frightening. Better to let them know it's an option if it becomes pertinent.
@Mamapolo2016 8 year olds will need to know that boys can and will have periods too because the vast majority of them won't have even started the transition process yet - so these trans boys will potentially be starting their periods in the next few years or so.
Given that trans children in general can have a hard time fitting in as it is, I think that anything that can help to remove barriers can only be a good thing - especially in America where children have the option of choosing which bathroom they feel most comfortable with using.
If a trans boy typically uses the boys room (let's say in school, for example) he's going to hit a problem when he has his period and needs to change his sanitary protection. Does he try to smuggle his rubbish into a nearby trash can and face ridicule from the other boys or does he deflect to the girls' room and face ridicule from the rest of the school???
No matter which way you look at it, these boys have a tough choice to make. I think that it's good that they are including disposal points in the boys bathrooms, too - even if it does mean that they now have to educate the other boys on what they are so that no one gets the crazy idea of vandalizing them just for kicks.
As a child of around 8 years of age, I used to see a girl come into the girls' room at school - and I would swear that she was a boy (she would have been around 6 or 7 at the time). It would be another 10 years before I learned that she was and still is a girl - so, if they are teaching that boys can have periods too, then I hope that they might start teaching that girls can look like boys.
Given that trans children in general can have a hard time fitting in as it is, I think that anything that can help to remove barriers can only be a good thing - especially in America where children have the option of choosing which bathroom they feel most comfortable with using.
If a trans boy typically uses the boys room (let's say in school, for example) he's going to hit a problem when he has his period and needs to change his sanitary protection. Does he try to smuggle his rubbish into a nearby trash can and face ridicule from the other boys or does he deflect to the girls' room and face ridicule from the rest of the school???
No matter which way you look at it, these boys have a tough choice to make. I think that it's good that they are including disposal points in the boys bathrooms, too - even if it does mean that they now have to educate the other boys on what they are so that no one gets the crazy idea of vandalizing them just for kicks.
As a child of around 8 years of age, I used to see a girl come into the girls' room at school - and I would swear that she was a boy (she would have been around 6 or 7 at the time). It would be another 10 years before I learned that she was and still is a girl - so, if they are teaching that boys can have periods too, then I hope that they might start teaching that girls can look like boys.
SomeMichGuy · M
@HootyTheNightOwl I think that this is yet another indoctrination fad...
8 yr old boys should be smart enough to know that a boy who has a period is not typical...
If you are using the definition of trans from the original paper--which uses cis & trans in a horrible borrowing from chemistry--then trans simply means "not cis", i.e., not traditional, and does not mean what it ought to (that someone is actually transitioning).
What % of the ppl actually ever transition? Do we teach about all the possible groups where that small a percentage of whatever can occur?
This seems like a tiny tail wagging the whole dog.
8 yr old boys should be smart enough to know that a boy who has a period is not typical...
If you are using the definition of trans from the original paper--which uses cis & trans in a horrible borrowing from chemistry--then trans simply means "not cis", i.e., not traditional, and does not mean what it ought to (that someone is actually transitioning).
What % of the ppl actually ever transition? Do we teach about all the possible groups where that small a percentage of whatever can occur?
This seems like a tiny tail wagging the whole dog.
If we want to split hairs on my choice to go with the word "trans" to describe a person who's gender doesn't exactly match the one that they were assigned at birth (in an attempt to make my reply a little easier to understand), then we will also have to accept and agree that, as as people have become more accepting of people who's gender doesn't match the one that they were assigned at birth the word "trans" has been applied to most everyone who's gender identity doesn't match their biological one - whether that be because they are the opposite gender or even have no gender at all.
If you want to teach about all groups, then you'll be spending the rest of time trying to teach this one group of 8 year olds about all the possibilities that are out there. At least in educating that boys can and will have periods, too, we are trying to create a more accepting world for those who may go their whole lives in a body that doesn't conform to traditional gender forms.
I agree that the overall percentage of people making the transition will be a tiny percentage of those who don't actually fit into the traditional gender options - but that doesn't and shouldn't mean that these people are somehow "confused". They have the right to live in whichever way they feel most comfortable just like the rest of society does. There are reasons why transitioning might not be an option for some men and women and that should not mean that these people are somehow less transgender in the same way as a heterosexual wouldn't be seen as a lesser man or woman because they chose to not marry or have children.
If you want to teach about all groups, then you'll be spending the rest of time trying to teach this one group of 8 year olds about all the possibilities that are out there. At least in educating that boys can and will have periods, too, we are trying to create a more accepting world for those who may go their whole lives in a body that doesn't conform to traditional gender forms.
I agree that the overall percentage of people making the transition will be a tiny percentage of those who don't actually fit into the traditional gender options - but that doesn't and shouldn't mean that these people are somehow "confused". They have the right to live in whichever way they feel most comfortable just like the rest of society does. There are reasons why transitioning might not be an option for some men and women and that should not mean that these people are somehow less transgender in the same way as a heterosexual wouldn't be seen as a lesser man or woman because they chose to not marry or have children.
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
@HootyTheNightOwl
If we want to split hairs on my choice to go with the word "trans" to describe a person who's gender doesn't exactly match the one that they were assigned at birth
I see "trans" as meaning one whose gender (masculine/feminine) doesn't match their sex (male/female). It's not perfect because, as the definition of the genders varies with culture, trans in one culture might be cis in another.@suzie1960 And that is exactly the point that I was trying to argue.
At one time, the term "Trans" used to refer to transitioning men and women, but as society became more aware of people who's biological sex doesn't fit in with their gender identity, it has been more commonly applied to those people and non binary people, too.
The difference becomes more apparent in the media as well, with people who haven't yet begun the transitioning process being referred to as "Transgender" - though they may be in their time of dressing as their chosen gender, they haven't yet begun to take the drugs to start the change and have the anatomy of their assigned gender.
At one time, the term "Trans" used to refer to transitioning men and women, but as society became more aware of people who's biological sex doesn't fit in with their gender identity, it has been more commonly applied to those people and non binary people, too.
The difference becomes more apparent in the media as well, with people who haven't yet begun the transitioning process being referred to as "Transgender" - though they may be in their time of dressing as their chosen gender, they haven't yet begun to take the drugs to start the change and have the anatomy of their assigned gender.