Prometheus · 26-30, M
vetguy1991 · 51-55, M
Fukfacewillie · 56-60, M
SW-User
But we won't give any to Ukraine because they are slow and more vulnerable to Russian air defenses (which are a tad more advanced than the Taliban) than F-35's (they are 1970's technology after all .. frankly we might as well just go pilot some F-35's there ourselves, directly, and wrap this shit up ... Putin travels in an armored train, he does not want to die in a nuclear war, his nuclear bluster is bullshit)
One infantry guy on the ground with some Javelins can also fuck up some Russian tanks pretty good
It is kinda cool however, how the sound of the Avenger cannon on the A-10 is delayed, and it's a very unique sound
[media=https://youtu.be/kUauwj6PS6I]
One infantry guy on the ground with some Javelins can also fuck up some Russian tanks pretty good
It is kinda cool however, how the sound of the Avenger cannon on the A-10 is delayed, and it's a very unique sound
[media=https://youtu.be/kUauwj6PS6I]
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SW-User
@Emjay it's initially a cool idea until you start to really analyze it in the environment that Ukraine actually has ... this is one example of a pretty good read on the subject:
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-a10-isnt-right-jet-for-war-ukraine-is-fighting-2022-7
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-a10-isnt-right-jet-for-war-ukraine-is-fighting-2022-7
Emjay · 18-21, F
@SW-User What is the ideal plane, if any?
SW-User
@Emjay I don't think any plane is a magic wand particularly when just handed over to perhaps at most 50 Ukrainian pilots who have had a completely different military aviation culture and experience with completely different legacy Soviet aircraft. Even with the F-16 (or Tornado or Mirage 2000D ... we're definitely never going to just give anyone something more advanced like an F-35), US pilots and ground crews have trained on them for months and years to gain genuine expertise.
At a minimum it would probably six months just for some basic training of already experienced Ukrainian pilots and ground crews —
which they don't have many of, and perhaps not even enough of to form multiple units to exploit the F-16 to its full multi-role potential by delegating individual roles of the plane to individual units working in concert ... just because it is an actual multi-role plane, in contrast to the Su-25 for instance, does not meet a single plane can handle all those roles simultaneously —
in F-16s, which would not equal expertise by any means, and would require taking the few pilots Ukraine has out of the war for the duration of their training. It would also be an embarrassment to just simply give them any aircraft and essentially say "good luck" and then see all those aircraft get shot down in the first few days. But they need some aircraft (or even just ground based, long range, precision munitions) to knock out as much of Russian air defenses as possible before even thinking about using aircraft for other derivative missions like close air support.
Then finding new pilots with no experience to train on western systems would be an even bigger challenge. It really is about the Ukrainian air force literally starting over from scratch with a completely different kind of aircraft and tactics.
Months or even years of necessary training for what not be an evolutionary change in the Ukrainian air force, but a truly revolutionary change, is probably time they really don't have. US (and other NATO member) pilots and ground crews are already well-trained on these systems. It makes much more sense for people already not only just trained on these systems, but indeed with extensive expertise in them, to go handle these missions directly to better guarantee that they do not fail. It seems inevitable that if we do not want autocracies around the world to start annexing democracies we have to enter the war, even if it is distasteful to some Americans, Britons, French, Germans, etc. It would probably be over a lot sooner if we did, and then China would probably also back off with Taiwan and all those contested atolls.
It's unfortunate that the west wasted time in inconsequential places like Iraq for so many years and made the public weary on the idea of war, because Ukraine is the war we actually need to fight and is more crucial in the long term with our genuine global adversaries and military equals.
Incidentally, here is another good read:
https://warontherocks.com/2023/02/amateur-hour-part-iii-its-still-not-about-the-airplane/
At a minimum it would probably six months just for some basic training of already experienced Ukrainian pilots and ground crews —
which they don't have many of, and perhaps not even enough of to form multiple units to exploit the F-16 to its full multi-role potential by delegating individual roles of the plane to individual units working in concert ... just because it is an actual multi-role plane, in contrast to the Su-25 for instance, does not meet a single plane can handle all those roles simultaneously —
in F-16s, which would not equal expertise by any means, and would require taking the few pilots Ukraine has out of the war for the duration of their training. It would also be an embarrassment to just simply give them any aircraft and essentially say "good luck" and then see all those aircraft get shot down in the first few days. But they need some aircraft (or even just ground based, long range, precision munitions) to knock out as much of Russian air defenses as possible before even thinking about using aircraft for other derivative missions like close air support.
Then finding new pilots with no experience to train on western systems would be an even bigger challenge. It really is about the Ukrainian air force literally starting over from scratch with a completely different kind of aircraft and tactics.
Months or even years of necessary training for what not be an evolutionary change in the Ukrainian air force, but a truly revolutionary change, is probably time they really don't have. US (and other NATO member) pilots and ground crews are already well-trained on these systems. It makes much more sense for people already not only just trained on these systems, but indeed with extensive expertise in them, to go handle these missions directly to better guarantee that they do not fail. It seems inevitable that if we do not want autocracies around the world to start annexing democracies we have to enter the war, even if it is distasteful to some Americans, Britons, French, Germans, etc. It would probably be over a lot sooner if we did, and then China would probably also back off with Taiwan and all those contested atolls.
It's unfortunate that the west wasted time in inconsequential places like Iraq for so many years and made the public weary on the idea of war, because Ukraine is the war we actually need to fight and is more crucial in the long term with our genuine global adversaries and military equals.
Incidentally, here is another good read:
https://warontherocks.com/2023/02/amateur-hour-part-iii-its-still-not-about-the-airplane/