I Am a Liberal

Allepo has fallen as Obama averted his gaze.

There was a lot of sympathetic talk when all of this started. Talk that faded into the never-ending void of soundbytes gone bye.

I always thought that history would judge Obama kindly in the long run. These days, I am not so sure about that.

Obama's refusal to stare down Aasad, and stand up for Allepo is absolutely shameful. It is a failure on the part of America and it's President's policies in the region.

While I grant Obama the blame, I think the shame of it belongs to all of us. Especially Democrats and Liberals, who have allowed things like transgender bathrooms, and other inconsequentials to distract focus from true issues such as Allepo and other more pressing world issues.

And, while I tend to believe in most Liberal causes, I feel that Democrats have gone a bit overboard with some things. Mostly at the expenses of our own common sense.

There are always lines. Unfortunately, we failed to cross a very important one. Political cowardice is nothing to be proud of, and not something to defend or ignore. What happened there is an absolute atrocitie. One that may have been prevented had America and it's President taken a stand for what is right, instead of burying our political heads in the sands.

Over 470,000 dead since March of 2011. Think about that for a minute.

[b][i][u]470,000 PEOPLE !!![/u][/i][/b]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/opinions/aleppos-fall-is-obamas-failure/2016/12/15/5af72640-c30f-11e6-9a51-cd56ea1c2bb7_story.html?client=ms-android-metropcs-us

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firefall · 61-69, M

There is no side that the americans can join, in Syria - none at all: there's no right side or wrong side, just a bunch of factions that are determined to corral total power for themselves: until they are prepared to compromise, there's nothing to be done but help the refugees. This isn't about political power or failing to 'stare down Assad' - that was never an option, Assad is fighting for his life, quite literally, and had nowhere to back down [b]to[/b]

And Americans dont have the will to suffer 20k+ casualties per year in trying to enforce a unilateral peace there against the will of all sides (nor do I blame them, and given Iraq it would likely be a failure anyway).

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firefall · 61-69, M

@HikingMan: Yes, pre-2008 .. ideally not invading in the first place. I think staying longer in Iraq would have resulted in more violence in Iraq, without slowly the flight of exsoldiers and weaponry to Syria; but I can see how you'd evaluate things otherwise.

As for caustic discussion, I think the major issue is trying to discuss things across the left/right divide because each side* sees the other as putting credence in things that are patently untrue, leading to almost immediate frustration. As we're both more or less on the same side of that divide, we can at least agree on basic facts on the ground :)

* of course, they're wrong, and we're right :D

HikingMan · 51-55, M

We aren't scamming to get elected either.

Enjoy the day, my friend.
Be well.

firefall · 61-69, M

@HikingMan: LOL true! Thanks for the discussion, and I trust the week is kind to you.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

If you looked at Obama's CV before he was elected you could have seen what he would be as president. An incompetent ideologue who thought way too highly of himself. Syria is just one of his many Middle Eastern disasters. Not all of them have born fruit yet. I divide liberals into two camps. Sane liberals who seek to make their country and their world a better place for all and Insane liberals who think that you can create truth by starting with a lie. Obama fits well into the latter category. His default position is to start with a lie and then when it blows up in his face insist that we just didn't go far enough to see the truth hidden there.

hunkalove · 61-69, M

Obama has been an inept and worthless president, but what happens in a hellhole like the Middle East is none of our business. We can't win and there is nothing to win, except for the trillions of dollars we have given the Great American War Machine. I assumed when I voted for Obama in 2008 he would have us out of Iraq and Afghanistan within weeks after his inauguration. We're still there, eight years later. He is a corporate stooge, and not much different than dubya except he's smarter and lies better.

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hunkalove · 61-69, M

@hippyjoe1955: Dubya is an idiot. Obama is a pretty smart feller. Both are bad presidents.

HikingMan · 51-55, M

I disagree with the assertion that what happens in the Middle East is none of our concern from a political, or morally derived standpoint.

We left Iraq too early. We failed to follow through with what was started.

In simple terms....

If your son spilled a gallon of milk, and you then picked up the container, put the lid on it and put it back in the fridge then walked away....,

Is it your son's fault that there is still milk on the floor ?

A base analogy to be sure, but one that quite hits the mark.

Isolationist ideology isn't something to strive for. And, it's definitely not something that makes the world as a whole, better or safer for anyone

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@hunkalove: To use a legal term: You are arguing facts not in evidence. IOW please provide some evidence of Obama's intelligence before continuing. I have never seen the intelligence Obama wants you to believe he has. He attained everything he has through affirmative action not native smarts. Take away his teleprompter and when you say hi to him he is stuck for an answer.

Picklebobble · 56-60, M

Sad; sorry; simple truth of it is nobody has the stomach for yet another elongated stay in the Middle East !
Afghanistan was a mess, Iraq still proves to be, and STILL the western world ignores the two biggest problems in the region !!
Iran and Saudi Arabia !
Yes, disgraceful !
Just as it was when the former Yugoslavia fell into civil war and all the attrocities committed there !

carpediem · 61-69, M

Your comments are powerful. It's a sad reality, but weak leadership from America results in unintended death around the world.

HikingMan · 51-55, M

There is no way of knowing how American intervention could've played out, as we never lifted a finger or batted an eye

carpediem · 61-69, M

@HikingMan: American intervention isn't always needed. But leadership is.

HikingMan · 51-55, M

Leadership comes from doing the right thing for the right reasons. Something terribly lacking in every facet of American society today. From the common man, all the way up and until The President.

That much is true.

Jakey75 · 61-69, M

That is certainly a somber statistic. I just hope we are not moving from a bad president to one even worse.

HikingMan · 51-55, M

Not sure "somber" is an apt enough word for the malicious destruction of 470,000 souls. That number, if you were to triple it, would be the approximate count on lives shattered.

Perhaps, "Caustically Mortifying" is a better term for the figure....

Thank you for reading.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

Well at least America dodged the Hillary bullet. She started wars under Obama's oversight. Imagine what she would have done as president.

HikingMan · 51-55, M

I am not a Trump supporter. Nor am I a Clinton fan.

I voted for the Johnson/Weld ticket. I do however consider myself a Liberal Democrat in principle. The thing is though..., Unlike a lot of Liberal Democrats I know, my conscience, and my own personal set of standards and morality keeps me from voting for criminals along party lines.

Like my mind, my eyes are wide open. I use both to think, and see, while searching for the truth.

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