I understood, but I call it a fantasy because it’s a thought experiment, not a society that has ever actually existed. Since it’s never actually existed you could say whatever you want about it to support your argument. There’s no way to effectively challenge an a position when it is based on an imagined, immaterial thing. @cosas

Opportunities for introspection happen every day as we live our lives. It’s integrated into the human condition. You can either tune in or tune out. There’s no shortage of stimuli. The most common evocations come from major, unexpected, transformative life changes (the good, disorienting, and the traumatizing).

“If you think it through” is another one of those rhetoric expressions that implies the person who disagrees with you hasn’t thought it through. Now, I could elaborate as to the intricacies why a collectivist culture doesn’t emphasize individual freethinking as a core value, but it wouldn’t matter to you because you already have based your premise off of a nonexistent society articulated in a sum of ideals for which there is no measuring of. It would be like arguing with someone about the existence of God or not. It won’t go anywhere. In the end it would always come down to faith, a belief in something for which there is no evidence to confirm or refute it.

@WhateverWorks
At least you don't mean the term "fantasy" as an insult. I knew you wouldn't, but there is this meaning, too.

I assume you do not mean that just because something is an idea, that means it has less practical value than a tangible arrangement. Otherwise, we wouldn't make plans at all, we wouldn't seek any improvement in things.


Yes, it's part of the evolution mechanism. I simply like to call the deeper processing of stimuli, the deeper "tuning in" through the word "thinking". And through this, I'm also thinking through reality... 😀



I have an idea to change my thirst into water drinking. I think it would by to my advantage to act on this idea.

I have an idea to propose to a beautiful person to share with me a few beautiful moments. I will even explain every detail of my "fantasy" to her, so she may know very well in advance what to expect of our date. For now, this is an idea, but it would benefit us both.

I wrote a book with an idea of making this society a better one. Others did it before, why not me? For now, my plan is just an idea. But it could be put in practice, just like others once put their ideas into practice, and many of those ideas actually worked. Now, if my idea has value, if I am right (regardless of my vanity, if I am objectively right!), we could all benefit.

I prefer we end our discussion here. If you really have to, you win. I won't go into semantics again. I think we both want a less suffering world in the end. Thank you. It was a stimulating conversation. Good luck with your projects! Be happy!

Oh, no, definitely never intended the term as an insult or even negative critique of your idea really, just not a materialized thing we could pick apart and effectively compare to the existing realities. I do agree that ideas are important, but I don’t believe they hold weight until they’ve been applied to some extent. That doesn’t mean that someone shouldn’t follow through on making the idea happen though. If anything, I believe it’s more reason for people to act on their ideas rather than let them sit in the realm of untouchable thought experiments, neither proven nor disproven or yet reworked. I’m not interested in being right though. It’s OK for us to not come to a total agreement. Thank you very much for the good conversation. @cosas

@SW-User I think is all money 🤑💰