MoveAlong · 70-79, M
We shouldn't be surprised as The Supreme Court has ruled time and again that corporations are people. Since most of the wealth in America is concentrated in the hands of corporations and controlled by their officers they can do pretty much whatever they please.
1886 (Santa Clara Co. v. S. Pacific Railroad): The Court decided that the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause applies to corporations, treating them as "natural persons".
1906 (Hale v. Henkel): Established that corporations have protections against unreasonable searches and seizures.
2010 Citizens United v. FEC): Determined that restricting independent political spending by corporations and unions violates the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment.
1886 (Santa Clara Co. v. S. Pacific Railroad): The Court decided that the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause applies to corporations, treating them as "natural persons".
1906 (Hale v. Henkel): Established that corporations have protections against unreasonable searches and seizures.
2010 Citizens United v. FEC): Determined that restricting independent political spending by corporations and unions violates the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@MoveAlong
The business corporation is less cumbersome than the US Government. The CEO can be fired on the spot if he is losing the kind of money Trump is throwing away on a senseless war. Even an entire board can be removed if the company is racking up debts and it's stock is tanking.
[media=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHnZi87272U]
We shouldn't be surprised as The Supreme Court has ruled time and again that corporations are people. Since most of the wealth in America is concentrated in the hands of corporations and controlled by their officers they can do pretty much whatever they please.
The business corporation is less cumbersome than the US Government. The CEO can be fired on the spot if he is losing the kind of money Trump is throwing away on a senseless war. Even an entire board can be removed if the company is racking up debts and it's stock is tanking.
[media=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHnZi87272U]
Ontheroad · M
America, or maybe better stated, the systems that built America are broken. The people matter little and it isn't getting any better. We took a system based on honor and ethics and over time made it a system that that rewards greed, avarice and power.... in business and in the government.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@Ontheroad
You have put the situation neatly in a nutshell. The way I see it is this. The systems that built America in 1776 are outdated. And yet, the Brits are doing the same thing today: politicians arguing in Parliament the way as they did in 1265. It's as ludicrous and comical as the deliberations in the US Congress I watch on satellite TV.
Today's Britain and America are societies of 70 and 350 million citizens respectively. Processing needs of those large numbers of people need supercomputers for decision making. There were no cars in either 1265 or 1776 for crying out loud.
Trump's America is not George Washington's America. However, the human animal has not change. I doubt very much that Washington was less immoral than Trump. The nation has been waging war from day one. The trail of tears began in 1776 till today.
America, or maybe better stated, the systems that built America are broken. The people matter little and it isn't getting any better.
You have put the situation neatly in a nutshell. The way I see it is this. The systems that built America in 1776 are outdated. And yet, the Brits are doing the same thing today: politicians arguing in Parliament the way as they did in 1265. It's as ludicrous and comical as the deliberations in the US Congress I watch on satellite TV.
Today's Britain and America are societies of 70 and 350 million citizens respectively. Processing needs of those large numbers of people need supercomputers for decision making. There were no cars in either 1265 or 1776 for crying out loud.
We took a system based on honor and ethics and over time made it a system that that rewards greed, varice and power.... in business and in the government.
Trump's America is not George Washington's America. However, the human animal has not change. I doubt very much that Washington was less immoral than Trump. The nation has been waging war from day one. The trail of tears began in 1776 till today.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@sree251 Why do you imagine vast computers will solve the two nation's respective internal problems?
Who would build, own and programme them? Human beings, obviously, but which ones? The government or commercial companies like the giant US and Chinese ones already monopolising over the Internet? The latter are small groups of individuals not accountable to anyone but themselves and their publicly-unknown shareholders. Many of their shareholders may well not even be nationals of the country concerned, and not have that country's interests at heart.
No humanly-built system can ever be 100% perfect or 100% efficient, including both "supercomputers" and democratic Parliaments; but at least parliaments are of real people drawn from across the country and we (the electorate) know who they are, and can select or reject them.
Also, the government forms policy. The "processing needs" - the administration of the policies - may or may not be helped by computers but the box of electronics is only the tool for the administration.
I'm not sure comparing 2026 with 1776 or 1265 very useful.
I don't know if the USA's Constitution has been modified much since then in 250 years despite an assortment of Amendments showing it can be amended.
Britain's has changed considerably over its intervening 761 years; largely in improving separations, rights and responsibilities.
(Some people think the UK, which was not the UK in the 13C anyway, has no constitution, but that is incorrect. I think the misunderstanding comes from seeing the US Constitutution being a single document and believing that defines a constitution.)
Who would build, own and programme them? Human beings, obviously, but which ones? The government or commercial companies like the giant US and Chinese ones already monopolising over the Internet? The latter are small groups of individuals not accountable to anyone but themselves and their publicly-unknown shareholders. Many of their shareholders may well not even be nationals of the country concerned, and not have that country's interests at heart.
No humanly-built system can ever be 100% perfect or 100% efficient, including both "supercomputers" and democratic Parliaments; but at least parliaments are of real people drawn from across the country and we (the electorate) know who they are, and can select or reject them.
Also, the government forms policy. The "processing needs" - the administration of the policies - may or may not be helped by computers but the box of electronics is only the tool for the administration.
I'm not sure comparing 2026 with 1776 or 1265 very useful.
I don't know if the USA's Constitution has been modified much since then in 250 years despite an assortment of Amendments showing it can be amended.
Britain's has changed considerably over its intervening 761 years; largely in improving separations, rights and responsibilities.
(Some people think the UK, which was not the UK in the 13C anyway, has no constitution, but that is incorrect. I think the misunderstanding comes from seeing the US Constitutution being a single document and believing that defines a constitution.)
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ArishMell
Computers cannot solve problems. They facilitate decision making. Instead of 535 politicians in Congress plus a President in the White House squabbling over what to do, they are all forced to adopt a disciplined approach to problem solving. They are forced to face the facts: the consequences of the decisions they make BEFORE they make them. For example, shall we go to war with Iran? The algorithm, based on the state of the nation, will spit out the explicit answer in print spelling out the the consequences. It cuts out the bullshit and the guesswork. It prevents the politicians from doing harm to the people.
You are asking a fundamental question. Running a nation is similar to running your own life for you are one digit in a population of 350 million (US) or 90 million (UK). You need food, clothing, shelter, transportation. These are basic needs. You, namely, the US Government, invite bids from companies to develop a solution package, select the best one, and implement it.
Computers are tools, and we use them to help manage the running of the country. This remove all the politics and bullshit and most of all prevent idiots from making bad decisions.
The government (i.e. politicians) can form all the policies it wants. The box of electronics will identify all policies that don't work and lay out the facts why they won't work.
Why do you imagine vast computers will solve the two nation's respective internal problems?
Computers cannot solve problems. They facilitate decision making. Instead of 535 politicians in Congress plus a President in the White House squabbling over what to do, they are all forced to adopt a disciplined approach to problem solving. They are forced to face the facts: the consequences of the decisions they make BEFORE they make them. For example, shall we go to war with Iran? The algorithm, based on the state of the nation, will spit out the explicit answer in print spelling out the the consequences. It cuts out the bullshit and the guesswork. It prevents the politicians from doing harm to the people.
Who would build, own and programme them? Human beings, obviously, but which ones? The government or commercial companies like the giant US and Chinese ones already monopolising over the Internet? The latter are small groups of individuals not accountable to anyone but themselves and their publicly-unknown shareholders. Many of their shareholders may well not even be nationals of the country concerned, and not have that country's interests at heart.
You are asking a fundamental question. Running a nation is similar to running your own life for you are one digit in a population of 350 million (US) or 90 million (UK). You need food, clothing, shelter, transportation. These are basic needs. You, namely, the US Government, invite bids from companies to develop a solution package, select the best one, and implement it.
No humanly-built system can ever be 100% perfect or 100% efficient, including both "supercomputers" and democratic Parliaments; but at least parliaments are of real people drawn from across the country and we (the electorate) know who they are, and can select or reject them.
Computers are tools, and we use them to help manage the running of the country. This remove all the politics and bullshit and most of all prevent idiots from making bad decisions.
Also, the government forms policy. The "processing needs" - the administration of the policies - may or may not be helped by computers but the box of electronics is only the tool for the administration.
The government (i.e. politicians) can form all the policies it wants. The box of electronics will identify all policies that don't work and lay out the facts why they won't work.