PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
I would be curious to see the actual study and methodology.
Last time something like this came up it turned out it was based on extrapolating from figures in the US that still use coal fire plants.
The problem with that is not all countries have an 18th century power grid anymore like WV.
Also it seems a bit irrelevant since hybrids are already a dying market and were only ever intended as a stop gap solution till battery tech improved.
Last time something like this came up it turned out it was based on extrapolating from figures in the US that still use coal fire plants.
The problem with that is not all countries have an 18th century power grid anymore like WV.
Also it seems a bit irrelevant since hybrids are already a dying market and were only ever intended as a stop gap solution till battery tech improved.
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wishforthenight · M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow The report also states that "Even when the cars were driven in electric mode, the analysis found that levels of pollution were well above official estimates. The researchers said this was because electric motors were not strong enough to operate alone, with their engines burning fossil fuels for almost one-third of the distance travelled in electric mode."
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I've read the report too and I think you've misunderstood the terminology. “Hybrid” just means a mix of electric and combustion power but there are two distinct types:
Conventional hybrids (HEVs) can’t be plugged in. Their small batteries recharge only from the engine or braking.
Plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) can be charged externally and should, in theory, drive many kilometres on electricity alone.
The reports point is that, in real-world driving, PHEVs often burn nearly as much fuel as conventional hybrids, because many drivers don’t charge them or the electric motors can’t handle typical journeys efficiently.
So the categories make perfect sense; the scandal is that the “plug-in” advantage isn’t delivering the promised emissions cuts, as the OP mentioned.
Conventional hybrids (HEVs) can’t be plugged in. Their small batteries recharge only from the engine or braking.
Plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) can be charged externally and should, in theory, drive many kilometres on electricity alone.
The reports point is that, in real-world driving, PHEVs often burn nearly as much fuel as conventional hybrids, because many drivers don’t charge them or the electric motors can’t handle typical journeys efficiently.
So the categories make perfect sense; the scandal is that the “plug-in” advantage isn’t delivering the promised emissions cuts, as the OP mentioned.
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@wildland Sounds like a bunch of the issues are just poor engineering decisions making less efficient vehicles like the paper mentions putting in underpowered electric motors.
I mean a bloodly locomotive is a hybrid so it is not like we don't have powerful enough engines. Probably a profit margin decision was behind this.
Hybrids also will become less and less relevant. In fact they already are because they were always intended as a stopgap technology.
Perhaps that is why they have been half assed to begin with.
I noticed the paper also is not entirely honest in that it makes this out to be a bigger growing problem than it is like citing sales increases in China. In China 51% of all new sales are EVs, not hybrids.
Also I did not see any distinction between American and Chinese Hybrids. You cannot do an apples to apples comparison when 2 countries the USA and Canada ban the biggest vehicle manufacturer for the rest of the world.
I mean a bloodly locomotive is a hybrid so it is not like we don't have powerful enough engines. Probably a profit margin decision was behind this.
Hybrids also will become less and less relevant. In fact they already are because they were always intended as a stopgap technology.
Perhaps that is why they have been half assed to begin with.
I noticed the paper also is not entirely honest in that it makes this out to be a bigger growing problem than it is like citing sales increases in China. In China 51% of all new sales are EVs, not hybrids.
Also I did not see any distinction between American and Chinese Hybrids. You cannot do an apples to apples comparison when 2 countries the USA and Canada ban the biggest vehicle manufacturer for the rest of the world.
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
A very interesting article and I suppose, as you hint, it does put certain people in a very difficult position: either to believe a paper they don't trust which confirms their suspicions or to actually accept it because it confirms their view and perhaps cause them not to dismiss the next thing that that newspaper prints because it challenges other ideas they hold..
For me, I'm disappointed that it's come to that conclusion, but since I don't have any other evidence I accept it. For a fact I know that my hybrid (not plug-in) save me a lot of money on petrol (gas) so I must be burning less.
For me, I'm disappointed that it's come to that conclusion, but since I don't have any other evidence I accept it. For a fact I know that my hybrid (not plug-in) save me a lot of money on petrol (gas) so I must be burning less.
swirlie · 31-35
jackjjackson · M
I may have to think about this. Where are we going? @swirlie
swirlie · 31-35
I have done a lot of research on the issue of hybrid pollution. Turns out, a standard gasoline-driven engine is about 5 times more efficient than the type of gas engine that used in all hybrid cars, which means the hybrid cars that use gas engines have about as much fuel efficiency a common gasoline powered lawnmower by comparison.
The whole concept of hybrid cars was to strike a balance between partial fuel and partial EV, aimed at a target audience who were paranoid about running out of fuel with no charging station in sight.
The bottom line is, either go FULL Petrol with no hybrid, or go FULL EV with no gas engine, because the hybrid gas engine by it's very design is highly inefficient when it is operating and is the sole source powering your car.
The whole concept of hybrid cars was to strike a balance between partial fuel and partial EV, aimed at a target audience who were paranoid about running out of fuel with no charging station in sight.
The bottom line is, either go FULL Petrol with no hybrid, or go FULL EV with no gas engine, because the hybrid gas engine by it's very design is highly inefficient when it is operating and is the sole source powering your car.