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Changeisgonnacome · 61-69, F
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Changeisgonnacome That would be Macron.
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
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PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@Burnley123 I agree the situation is different. But the lack of follow through still applies.
As for Greece having no power if you believe that than things are even worse in Europe and some of the conspiracy theorists are right if the EU is basically a fig leaf for German banking interests.
What Greece owed was unsecured debt to private banks. What was very unorthodox (and arguably not legal) was the EU using government clout to collect private debt.
Greece was certainly within it's right to tell Deutchebank to pound sand and they had the backing of the people to do it. If Greece had no power that would suggest the elected government of member states are functionally irrelevant when it comes to the desires of capital. Even I am not quite at that point yet.
But it is interesting to see what happens with France. If they have the support of the unions they could be a force to be reckoned with.
As for Greece having no power if you believe that than things are even worse in Europe and some of the conspiracy theorists are right if the EU is basically a fig leaf for German banking interests.
What Greece owed was unsecured debt to private banks. What was very unorthodox (and arguably not legal) was the EU using government clout to collect private debt.
Greece was certainly within it's right to tell Deutchebank to pound sand and they had the backing of the people to do it. If Greece had no power that would suggest the elected government of member states are functionally irrelevant when it comes to the desires of capital. Even I am not quite at that point yet.
But it is interesting to see what happens with France. If they have the support of the unions they could be a force to be reckoned with.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I'm a Varoufakis fan so I'm very familiar. You are basically right about Greek debt but wrong about their power to resist. The Troika staved Greece of capital to force Syriza to capitulate to the repayment agreement. Vafoufakis says that Syriza should have fought harder. The Greek communists think they should have gone for Grexit. All options were awful though.
[quote]If Greece had no power that would suggest the elected government of member states are functionally irrelevant when it comes to the desires of capital. [/quote]
In this case, it is pretty true. Greece has even been called a 'debt colony. Governments have no power because of the debts and the huge leverage (in both senses) on the country.
France is the Eurozone's second most powerful nation. It would be interesting to see if a left govt there could gain more concessions.
[quote]If Greece had no power that would suggest the elected government of member states are functionally irrelevant when it comes to the desires of capital. [/quote]
In this case, it is pretty true. Greece has even been called a 'debt colony. Governments have no power because of the debts and the huge leverage (in both senses) on the country.
France is the Eurozone's second most powerful nation. It would be interesting to see if a left govt there could gain more concessions.
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@Burnley123 I am a fan of Varoufakis myself and I personally think he was right. There were no good options but I believe capitulating to being a debt colony was the worst option out of bad ones.
And I agree about France and as much as people like to dance around it these days I am sure France having the largest army in Europe helps.
And I agree about France and as much as people like to dance around it these days I am sure France having the largest army in Europe helps.
Northwest · M
Mélenchon's rise is fueling the FN's supporters.
Low key/turnout though. Left today as the elections started.
Low key/turnout though. Left today as the elections started.
Northwest · M
@Burnley123 I think Macron has no choice but to make concessions to Mélenchon, but it IS going to cause right wing racism to bubble up, just like it did in the US.
I am now saying Mélenchon should let up, but pointing out that the proverbial masks have finally dropped.
I am now saying Mélenchon should let up, but pointing out that the proverbial masks have finally dropped.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Northwest I have other issues with your analysis.
However, the RN is predicted to do badly in the next round. The Republicans (Conservatives) will lose seats.
Macron is still favourite to get the most seats after second round votes. He may or may not get an outright majority.
I could see a situation in which he gets legislation passed I'm coalition with the Republicans, who are closer to him than any other major party.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/france/20220613-takeaways-from-the-first-round-of-france-s-parliamentary-elections
However, the RN is predicted to do badly in the next round. The Republicans (Conservatives) will lose seats.
Macron is still favourite to get the most seats after second round votes. He may or may not get an outright majority.
I could see a situation in which he gets legislation passed I'm coalition with the Republicans, who are closer to him than any other major party.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/france/20220613-takeaways-from-the-first-round-of-france-s-parliamentary-elections
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Northwest Well, it could get a reaction but that reaction is there anyway. Macron has spent the last few years copying a lot of Le Pen's rhetoric. He is now being forced back the other way.
Well, teacher, I know your answer, you probably read it in The Guardian. I know my answer, I have learnt it from listening to Mr Melenchon.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@EarthlingWise This is propaganda and not sustainable by anything that I have read. Macron is more authoritarian, especially with policing methods.
A quarter of your compatriots (including a huge number of minorities and educated young people) are fooled by this somehow? Do they want a pro-Putin dictator? 🙆♂️
The mainstream media seeks to discredit the left by any means possible because of elite economic interests. The same thing happened with Sanders and Corbyn. A straight ideological fight won't wash so attacking them from a faux-progressive standpoint is a frequently deployed strategy.
I think you yourself are honest but a lot of the people you read are not.
A quarter of your compatriots (including a huge number of minorities and educated young people) are fooled by this somehow? Do they want a pro-Putin dictator? 🙆♂️
The mainstream media seeks to discredit the left by any means possible because of elite economic interests. The same thing happened with Sanders and Corbyn. A straight ideological fight won't wash so attacking them from a faux-progressive standpoint is a frequently deployed strategy.
I think you yourself are honest but a lot of the people you read are not.
@Burnley123 I do not read a lot of people to make political opinions about candidates.
I'm not an innocent little goose looking for direction. I make my opinion on people by listening to them , and looking at their reactions in bad times.
I am also old enough to know how leftist papers work. Paranoia is one of their favourite tools. They are preying on young people's idealism and are surely not unbiased at all.
Again, see for yourself.
I'm not an innocent little goose looking for direction. I make my opinion on people by listening to them , and looking at their reactions in bad times.
I am also old enough to know how leftist papers work. Paranoia is one of their favourite tools. They are preying on young people's idealism and are surely not unbiased at all.
Again, see for yourself.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@EarthlingWise I'm not naive either. I know what I believe and how propeganda works