I Am Against Abortion

@ArthurP In reality, then, your transition between pro-choice and pro-life only serves to prove my point. You didn't arrive upon your current position on the basis of debate, but upon introspection and study. (FWIW, your experience mirrors my own even if I am a Christian.)

As for necessary evils, I do agree that there are times when homicide may be justified, say, such as when the...ahem..."product of conception" is the result of rape, incest or endangers the mother's life. (The latter being an extremely rare occurrence given current medical technology.)

Oh, and the mechanisms of reproduction in no way remove or diminish the sanctity of life. If anything, the dizzying complexities of the requisite process only add to it.

As we are largely in agreement, there is little point in exploring the subject further, but I certainly gave the wrong impression by suggesting my change of view was absent debate! As a father of three intelligent and articulate daughters, two of whom were virulent socialist feminist in their university days, (they eventually grew up!!) I had many ding-dongs with them. Indeed their absolutism on a woman's absolute right about what she does with her own body moved me further and more rapidly to my present position. The idea that anyone, including their own father, could think that a foetus inside their body actually WAS another body with its own inalienable rights had them flouncing out of the room in tears of exasperation as they were unable to mount any effective contradiction. Gosh, how I miss those conflagrations: they are now all middle aged ladies with centre-right views. Maybe I should radicalise in my last years.

(One of them built a fairly high-power legal career in corporation law, but became so disillusioned she gave it all up, funded herself through a three year degree in midwifery, and is now the senior midwife at a leading hospital, bringing safely into the world the 'products of conception' that 25 years ago she would have thought had no rights until that moment of birth. And such is progress that they have successfully brought to heathy maturity a premature birth at just 21 weeks. )

@ArthurP Wow! I am awed by your anecdote! Here's hoping we chance to encounter each other again on disparate topics/positions.

And although this may not mean much to you now, I praise God for the fine women your daughters have become--largely due, I'm sure, to your own faithful efforts at tutelage.

Totally agree with you

@MarineBob the problem is our politicians in this country have blurred morality with politicalness abortion is a moral decision not a political one yes the Catholic Church the Baptist Church any church has a right to speak about an injustice to an innocent class of people that cannot protect themselves also our politicians should be protecting a class of people that cannot protect themselves The unborn.

@MarineBob I take it by your name that you either aspire to be a marine or you are a Marine one of the greatest fighting forces in the world. Marines they live by a code

Honor This is the bedrock of our character. It is the quality that empowers Marines to exemplify the ultimate in ethical and moral behavior: to never lie, cheat, or steal; to abide by an uncompromising code of integrity; to respect human dignity; and to have respect and concern for each other. It represents the maturity, dedication, trust, and dependability that commit Marines to act responsibly, be accountable for their actions, fulfill their obligations, and hold others accountable for their actions.

Courage The heart of our Core Values, courage is the mental, moral, and physical strength ingrained in Marines that sees them through the challenges of combat and the mastery of fear, and to do what is right, to adhere to a higher standard of personal conduct, to lead by example, and to make tough decisions under stress and pressure. It is the inner strength that enables a Marine to take that extra step.

Commitment This is the spirit of determination and dedication within members of a force of arms that leads to professionalism and mastery of the art of war. It promotes the highest order of discipline for unit and self and is the ingredient that instills dedication to Corps and country 24 hours a day, pride, concern for others, and an unrelenting determination to achieve a standard of excellence in every endeavor. Commitment is the value that establishes the Marine as the warrior and citizen others strive to emulate.

In the first one honor under this you have the human dignity the human dignity is being able to see another human to respect and protect their life. Marines everyday put their life in harm's way to protect innocent people United States citizens and anyone that they are asked to protect. if they cannot protect the most vulnerable those who cannot fight for themselves The unborn child then where is there honor.

@casioBiscuit I think the point is that a single lapse in moral conduct undermines the gestalt. We use the same rationale for justifying a given act as justification for others along the same lines. E.g.,:

It's OK to take human life as punishment for murder, so it must be OK to take it under [X] other circumstances.

If one accepts death-by-rationalization as an axiom, then the logic is sound.