5 weeks ago Godspeed63 started another threat on this forum with the provocative name: [b]"Science Really Does Point To God"[/b]. Now the evidence of that claim is seriously under investigation. So far... to say it's "inconclusive" is a really friendly way of saying that there isn't much there.
Speedyman got the "Best Answer" which supposedly is this one:
[quote]Simply by accepting the scientific method you are accepting a rational universe therefore a rational mind behind it. Unless you are one of those irrational people who believes blind chance creates rationality[/quote]
It generated over 770 replies (so far). The side of people that are closely related to a religious mindset, spearheaded by: Godspeed63, Speedyman and Hippyjoe1955 contributed quite a lot.
Now some of the replies (on both sides) never really lead to much progress. It's more name calling from both sides and people feeling attacked in their believes. Which you can kinda expect from discussions like this. But I think if people go and read the entire thing, they will come fairly close to the summary I give in reply 770 on how religious people defend themselves. (read up here: https://similarworlds.com/19-Spirituality-Religion/2675808-Science-Really-Does-Point-To-God-No-Question-About?rid=31217251)
Annyway, this is post 770, or how you defend a dogmatic position against scientific data (or how you rationalise things that don't coop with your religious-dataset):
[b]1.[/b] The only source that matter, is the bible. If something goes against the bible. It has to be wrong.
[b]2.[/b] Say something, but don't state your source. If they don't accept your "truth" then they are asses for being sceptical. [i](The burden of proof is for those that don't agree with you. That's how the inquisition did it, and it worked for them. Why change a working system?)[/i]
[b]3.[/b] If you can't make your point in a rational way, and back it up with facts, apply terror. They either accept what you tell them, or let them know that they are going to burn in hell for not accepting your truth. [i](Tell them to "have a nice flame out", it's the Christian thing to do)[/i]
[b]4.[/b] Gods' natural force to create things, isn't magic. It's Godly.
[b]5.[/b] If the probability of something happening is really small. Then just regard it as being "irrational" to believe it might happen. The probability of it happening is just too small, so it just can't happen. Therefore God needed to have something to do with it. Because that's way more rational then believing in small probabilities.
[b]6.[/b] If people still don't believe you, then tell them they are ignorant and are unable to understand. Always seek the moral high-ground. Make your opponent look inferior... even if they quote the bible. People that look idiotic have no claim on the truth, only people that look virtuous and smart can claim to know things.
[b]7.[/b] If someone does make a point that is literally in the bible. Make sure to tell them that only "real" believers can interpretate the bible. Never EVER define "real", just make sure they know that you are one of the "real" ones. Because atheists are able to read scientific papers, but the bible just isn't for them.
[b]8.[/b] If someone uses science to debunk the bible, look for a few missteps in science. Then tell everyone that science is wrong because some scientists make mistakes. The Nirvana fallacy is your friend. Apply the same reasoning the agnostic atheists do. If they can use the nirvana fallacy to debunk the basic dataset of a religion, then why can't we? Never EVER agree that science and religion are not the same thing. Never EVER agree that science has a human characteristic. Extrapolate the "believe" in science to a "religious believe". Science is a religion and should be treated just like our religion is treated. Science is a cult! Wreck 'm!
[b]9.[/b] Only use scientific studies if they work in your favor. Be "sceptical" about all the others [i](apply rule 8 )[/i]. When they ask you if you are knowledgeble about the "toppic" or "field" you are quoting a studie off, always respond with: "yes" or "I have a really smart friend that explained it to me" [i](preferably a "scientific" friend, that doesn't belong to the science cult and says the same thing we do. Make sure to mention your friend is really smart. If your friend doesn't study the field (s)he criticises, make sure to mention that doesn't matter because (s)he is so smart. Anekdotal evidence works for us, because we know what is smart and others don't. - apply rule 6 )[/i].
[b]10.[/b] Never ever loose faith in what you believe, because else we'll burn in hell too. God doesn't apply terror, He loves us because we believe in Him and makes us burn if we are sceptical of Him. [i](that's just how love works... proof us wrong 🤷♂️)[/i]
[i](oh yeah, the text in the image... those are literal quotes from the threat. I'm not making this up.)[/i]
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I have seen enough of this sort of thing that I no longer participate in such threads - it is an exercise in futility. I recognize the text in the top bubble in the above image - I can tell who posted it. "Do some research" is his typical response. He never reveals his "sources." Such a jerk.
@Byron8by7 [quote]I have seen enough of this sort of thing that I no longer participate in such threads - it is an exercise in futility.[/quote]
I quite agree. It is an exercise in futility, However, if you apply that criticism to Godspeed alone, then you have to apply it to the rest of the posts and threads on SW. That's what we do here....discuss. Yet it seems that when it comes to spiritual posts, they are singled out for criticism, which is not cool. Everyone has a right to post on here as they wish and if they don't like it they can simply move on or block these people.
@LadyGrace [quote]That's what we do here....discuss. Yet it seems that when it comes to spiritual posts, they are singled out for criticism, which is not cool.[/quote]
They aren't even singled out... They start "discussions", that aren't "discussions" at all and get reaction to their post. Something they were looking for to begin with, when they made a thread on a website that allows for reaction. If they don't like reaction to what they preach, then they shouldn't be here.
But the real devoted Christians, can't handle criticism. And for good reason... the reason being, that they have nothing real to base their faith on. That's why it's a faith to begin with, it has little to nothing going for it and people just believe. So when people pick away all the flawed arguments that they are trying to make... espescially when they are on the fruitless crusade to base their faith in reality, it just becomes extremely embaressing. Instead of rethinking their position... what do they do? Well they have a bunch of tactics that can be found in the post. You can also ignore the toppic completely and just play the victim card because Christians are such victims in society. According to some evangelicals they are one of the most oppressed groups in society. Give me a break.
Christians playing the victim card every time they get some pushback, shows a lot about their fragile character LadyGrace.
@Kwek00 Oh baloney, they [u]are[/u] singled out! Christians can take [b]constructive[/b] criticism just fine, but what you do and others like you, is not just criticism. It's singling out Christians for bashing and bullying, just because they can. Still not cool. You are always playing the victim card and it's pretty sickening and old. Get a life.
@Kwek00 [quote]But the real devoted Christians, can't handle criticism. And for good reason... the reason being, that they have nothing real to base their faith on. That's why it's a faith to begin with, it has little to nothing going for it and people just believe. So when people pick away all the flawed arguments that they are trying to make... espescially when they are on the fruitless crusade to base their faith in reality, it just becomes extremely embaressing.[/quote]
I rest my case. Still criticizing Christians. Real nice. You really don't have a clue in what you're talking about. The only thing embarrassing is your attempt at bullying, and lack of knowledge about Christians, God, and the Bible.
@LadyGrace [quote]@Kwek00 Oh baloney, they are singled out! Christians can take constructive criticism just fine, but what you do and others like you, is not just criticism.[/quote]
No, that segment of the christian poppulation that I'm talking about. The real devoted types... no they can't take critique at all. That's why they ask people that criticize them to move along instead of interacting with their complaints. People that criticize those christians get the advice to block them, so that the christian doesn't have to deal with the stress of having criticisism at their door. Like you are doing right now.
The victim card? What am I a victim off exactly? Where does my victim complex come into play in this conversation? I'm not asking you to shut up or anything, that's your advice not mine.
You rest your case by proving mine? Thanks LG, good job! Oh... where is the counter to what I said? Where do I need to look for this faith that is a logical conclusion from evidence found in the real world?
