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If we don't teach creation in school, because of other people's beliefs, why teach evolution?

I don't really believe in creation (or evolution), but it just saddens me how people bash on creationists, and don't let them learn creation in school, while it's okay to teach them the [i]theory[/i] of evolution.

I see this as bullshit.

Both sides have no proof that either creation happened nor evolution (thus the [i]theory[/i] of evolution). In my opinion, we should just leave both out completely (or give students an option).

It's not fair to creationists to not be able to learn their beliefs, while other beliefs are forced down their throats. It's just not fair in my opinion.

What do you guys think (and yes, I did get this idea from another person's post about wanting to fight a creationist on their beliefs)?
Everybody else is saying this in the comments, so this may sound repetitive, but "Theory" in a scientific context is virtually the same as proven fact. Furthermore, the evidence for evolution is everywhere. From the fossil record, which we know is millions of years old thanks to measuring radioactive decay, to studies showing that we can "force" animals to evolve, providing direct observational evidence. For example, the Belyaev domesticated fox experiment: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/mans-new-best-friend-a-forgotten-russian-experiment-in-fox-domestication/ Essentially, a scientist took several wild foxes, selected the ones that were most docile around humans to breed with each other, and over several generations, they evolved into foxes that acted like and even resembled modern domestic dogs. You can't deny that kind of evidence. That said, I believe people should have the right to believe what they want, even if that belief is flat-out wrong, just so long as said belief is not forced upon others. So one is more than welcome to believe in creationism, even though all evidence indicates it's objectively false. To allow otherwise would be a violation of the United States Constitution's first amendment. But creationism should not be taught in public schools because religion is not meant to be taught in public schools, and creationism is rooted in religion while evolution is rooted in science. Also, if you're going to advocate teaching the Christian creation myth, you should also advocate teaching the creation myth of other religions, such as Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. To do otherwise would be hypocritical, especially considering you admit yourself you don't believe in either, as it suggests you're trying to push a specific religious agenda rather than wanting all perspectives to be viewed equally.
BlackBloodDemon · 22-25
@GrammarPolice: Technically, the beliefs of evolution is forced upon others. If I were still a creationist, I wouldn't want to have to sit in a class, and have peers look down at me saying I believe in myths. This goes for anyone who is a creationist or part of any other religion.

I'm currently in biology, and we have been talking about evolution for about 5 [i]months[/i] now. I understand that biology is connected to evolution, but if it's going to take that long to study, they might as well have it as a separate science class. It gets boring talking about the same thing for months.

I also don't have a problem with schools teaching other religious beliefs, because I also think it's important to know them as well; especially if you're religious.

For example:

Let's say you're Jewish, and you're in a debate with an Islamic, what can you say about their arguments to backup your argument? We can't say anything, because we don't study a lot of their information. A lot of people who are religious are against studying other religions. This is because they don't want anyone "converting over," which doesn't have to be the case. What if I just want to learn about the religion? I don't have to believe in it. Take historians, because some of them study past beliefs (ex: the gods of Ancient Egypt). They aren't "converting over."
But evolution is connected to science, not religion. There's a fundamental difference. Evolution isn't a "belief" like creationism is, it's verifiable fact. Five months does seem like a lot to talk about evolution, as it's really very simple, but on the other hand, evolution is a key part of biology, so you do need to know it to study biology. When I took biology, we spent about 3 months on evolution, but none of the creationists in that class (and there were a handful) complained too much.
ForeverOnMyGuard · 22-25, F
Well creationists learn about their theories through their parents and church and stuff. I am a firm believer of separation of church and state, and I believe that teaching creationism would be teaching religion in schools, which I am against. Evolution is a scientific Theory, something that should be taught just as much as gravity is. The thing about scientific Theories is that scientists try to prove them wrong, they're not saying "This is right" they're saying "We can't prove this wrong with the technology and knowledge we currently possess". So maybe there is no proof that evolution is real, but there's currently no proof it isn't either. Creation is looking in a book and saying "I believe in this without proof that it's correct"

Honestly tho I don't see why creation and evolution can't coexist. Maybe there is a god and they created humans, and then humans evolved into what we are today.

But either way, creation shouldn't be taught in schools because it is affiliated with religion.
redredred · M
@BlackBloodDemon: news flash: Evolution is about speciation, not origins.
BlackBloodDemon · 22-25
@redredred: News flash: evolution pretty much connects back to origins
redredred · M
@BlackBloodDemon: no, Darwins books were the Origin of Species and The Descent of Man. Both books assumed an existing biome. Both described how that biome changed via evolution. Neither discussed the origin of that biome. Try to stay up.
AliBabe74 · 46-50, F
The issue is teaching creationism in SCIENCE class. It's perfectly fine to teach it within the context of a class on religion. But creationists want it taught as science.
redredred · M
@BlackBloodDemon: please list those conjectures you cite in evolutionary theory. Thanks
BlackBloodDemon · 22-25
The amino acid chain sequences
preserved fossils
the fact of not knowing if you're completely correct
redredred · M
@BlackBloodDemon: so you not only don't know the definition of "Theory" but the definition of "conjecture" escapes you as well.
AliBabe74 · 46-50, F
And evoLuton is based on scientific fact and observations. Creationism is not. Therefore evolution is not 'belief'.
AliBabe74 · 46-50, F
This is why I know better than to get involved in these. The level of ignorance and stupidity is much too frustrating for me to deal with.
BlackBloodDemon · 22-25
@AliBabe74: I'm not really dense... I'm stating my opinion on the matter

I don't think it's right to teach something in a science class when we don't know for sure if it's actually true. The same goes for creation. Everyone has their own beliefs. They shouldn't be put down for it in a science class when the science class is teaching something that's known to not be completely true either.
AliBabe74 · 46-50, F
You obviously are that fucking dense. Science is about observable, proven facts, which there are many observable, proven facts of evolution. That's the whole fucking point.
SW-User
I think that, amongst other things, you don't understand how the term theory is used within science. In scientific terms, a theory is the highest possible 'level' something can be, as it has data that supports the theory in spades. What you're thinking of would better be called conjecture, which is what creationism is. Hell, evolution (albeit on a small scale) can be studied pretty much in real time through the use of bacteria. If someone wants to learn about creationism, they should be free to do so within a religious studies classroom.
BlackBloodDemon · 22-25
@KiwiDan: The fossil record could have taken place in just 2,000 years along with micro-evolution.

We humans have no way of really tracking what happened on the earth over the course of millions of years (or 2,000 years according to a creationist).

I'm just saying both sides could be wrong. I find flaws in both creation (I grew up in a creationist home) and evolution (I'm currently learning it in school right now).
SW-User
@BlackBloodDemon: Have you ever heard of radio carbon dating? Because that's how the age of things like fossils are determined. There's no way that it could have happened in "2000 years" as you seem to be positing; Rome was around 2000 years ago, and by that logic they should look almost like Neanderthals to us modern humans. But they don't, because evolution takes millenia to happen.
BlackBloodDemon · 22-25
@KiwiDan: They say that it occurs in millions of years, but they could be wrong.

All I was saying in my post was why we had to teach evolution in school, when it's just as bad as telling kids that creation really did happen. The kids should have the choice to learn evolution, and/or creation (in grade school and high school).
I do believe in creation, but I don't believe in forcing students to belive in creationism nor evolution, rather I would teach students to think for themselves. (This in terms of public education)
BlackBloodDemon · 22-25
@AugustineAzalea: Exactly what I was trying to say. Why teach something to students when we don't know it's for certain?

Let them think for themselves which is correct or not correct (give them a choice instead of saying "This [i]is[/i] the answer")
redredred · M
Because there is ample, objective evidence for evolution and creationism is a mere hypothesis.
AliBabe74 · 46-50, F
@BlackBloodDemon: do you know anything about science and scientific terminology???
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
@BlackBloodDemon: If evolution were only a hypothesis, it wouldn't be called the Theory of Evolution, it would be the Hypothesis of Evolution.
redredred · M
@BlackBloodDemon: "theory" is the highest level of proof in science. Einstein's theory of relativity corrected Newton's laws of motion. You are using a device right now constructed with help from circuit theory. Even Gravity is a theory. A hypothesis is simply a conjecture.

A theory is tested and has yet to fail a single test. Google endogenous retroviruses (ERV) and see the incontrovertible proof of evolution.
AliBabe74 · 46-50, F
It blows my mind that so many adults have a more limited understanding of science than my 9 year old son.
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
@AliBabe74: A big problem is the layman's misunderstanding of the word 'theory'.
AliBabe74 · 46-50, F
Yes, that is a huge issue. But even when people are shown the difference they seem to choose to still not understand.
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
@AliBabe74: That's true too in a lot of cases. That's something I can't explain, I don't even have a working hypothesis. :(
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
You misunderstand what "theory" means in science. They're not just ideas, they're actually tried and tested and found to concur with the known facts. "Creation" is not even a theory, it's no more than a hypothesis without any evidence to support it.
LothricYoungerPrince · 18-21, M
Then you may as well tell kids that it's fine to talk to their imaginary friend in public, as they are as real as god. I am not saying that neither does not exist but don't call someone crazy because they can see and hear things you can not.
BlackBloodDemon · 22-25
@durmstrangdarkarts: What does this have to do with the question? I had my own imaginary friends when I was a kid. I don't think a kid is crazy for having an imaginary friend.

I also don't think people are crazy for what they believe in.
Seems like a valid point.

 
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