Is religion and faith cynical? [Spirituality & Religion]

Religion uses rhetoric to trick believers into feeling secure where none is needed. The same outcome can be achieved through philosophy without rhetoric and with respect for the individual's own minds.

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rckt148 · 61-69, M

you are entitled to your opinion ,and I will support that
but do not be confused ,Gods Children are the Church not a building
Faith is not based on rhetoric ,its based on overcoming impossible situations and events in ways the Wise many dismiss ,but can't explain.
Like my kids being healed of a disease ,and an event Doctors say is impossible ,
but yet it happened .
Also a landlord trying to make me move ,he gets sick all the sudden and a daughter has to come get him to move in with her ,I get to stay ,he ends up moving .
Manager fires me for asking for a promised raise ,he also complained I read my Bible on the job (I did between jobs ,but I did an above and beyond job)
A week later I am rehired and get a larger raise then I asked for ,but also less work ,and the owner tells me when I am not busy to read my Bible all I want ,I am good for his business ,the service I provided was not only worth every dime he paid me ,but I did it so well word of mouth praise had increased his business .
Oh and the manager who fired me was fired .
My kids were hid from me 12 yrs ,after I did something that was a huge sacrifice of obedience ,not only did I find my kids ,I was given favor with the courts and 5 months after I found them ,I won full custody of them and one of the ladies who helped hide my kids from me is the reason I have the home I live in for the last 20 yrs
I was addicted to drugs and alcohol from 13 - 34 ,,after losing my kids and 2 wives I was still unable to quit ,,but in one night I was delivered from my addictions ,over 22 yrs I have no desire to use again or drink ,all desire removed and no withdraw ,not one day
I could go on about how I lost everything and was living in a hobo camp after owning my own companies ,but my health and lose of my wife cost me everything I loved ,to getting all I lost back (except my wife ,she also has free will )and fulfilling a dream to be a recording artist
You can have your opinion to call it rhetoric ,,
I call it blessings I did not get from Church ,,
My life turned around when my opinions that were once like yours turned around
and I became a born again son of God

I found out my daughter was healed in my absence ,during the 12 yrs she was hid from me ,
but it was in a yearly checkup after I got custody of her the Doctors did a new MRI of her spine and said her disease was a misdiagnoses
ending up with its impossible ,"It looks as if she grew a new spine "
The disease is gone ,,but all the painful tests she had endured ,MRI's and Xrays proved she was not misdiagnosed ,,she had a miracle

call it rhetoric if you like ,say you can get the same results from other sources
I bet you can't ,,some of us are not into religion and playing Church
We just love God ,but I think I have more then rhetoric to base my faith on

Samson2000 · 22-25, M

@rckt148 That's a pretty Old Testament 'obedience and reward' view of faith/religion.
Delighting in your landlord's ilness doesn't fit that well with the total love of enemy proposed in the New Testament.

rckt148 · 61-69, M

@Samson2000 I never said I delight in anyone suffering or loosing
I do however know Gods hand has been on me some time
and anyone who gives their best to God gets His best
He said you can't out give me ,try me
you can make anything you want of this post
it was just a testimony ,my faith is based on more the rhetoric

sogdianrock · 61-69, M

hi rckt148
I am glad that your life is full of blessings.
Thanks for your answer
Best wishes
:)

SW-User

No. Cynicism is better associated with the doubters (skeptics). And although it's true that philosophy can outperform faith in terms of sound explanation and realistic benefits we shouldn't be as hasty as to quick suggest that the intention of faiths is to trick people. Lastly, I should think that philosophy doesn't respect minds of all individuals. Rather, it works towards the absolute truth: and people will either accept or reject its conclusions.

Miram · 31-35, F

Early cynicism, as used in its early meaning, is related to religious practices of isolating oneself from the material world, wants.. It's no surprise the two seem strongly related just like to nihilism and idealism.

sogdianrock · 61-69, M

hi Darkcosmos
I applaud Diogenes:
“It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.”
― Diogenes of Sinope

“Alexander the Great found the philosopher looking attentively at a pile of human bones. Diogenes explained, "I am searching for the bones of your father but cannot distinguish them from those of a slave.”
― Diogenes of Sinope

However I do not believe the Cynics were cynical in the modern meaning of the words. I applaud The Philosophy of Cynicism.
Best wishes
:)

wikipedia:
Cynicism (Greek: κυνισμός) is a school of thought of ancient Greek philosophy as practiced by the Cynics (Greek: Κυνικοί, Latin: Cynici). For the Cynics, the purpose of life is to live in virtue, in agreement with nature. As reasoning creatures, people can gain happiness by rigorous training and by living in a way which is natural for themselves, rejecting all conventional desires for wealth, power, sex, and fame. Instead, they were to lead a simple life free from all possessions.

dictionary:
cynicism
ˈsɪnɪsɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
1.
an inclination to believe that people are motivated purely by self-interest; scepticism.
"public cynicism about politics"
synonyms:scepticism, doubt, distrust, mistrust, doubtfulness, suspicion, disbelief, incredulity, unbelief, scoffing; pessimism, negative thinking, negativity, world-weariness, disillusion, disenchantment; raredubiety, sardonicism

Samson2000 · 22-25, M

Errr, rhetoric is a philosophical device. It dates back to Greek schools of philosophy that are much earlier in origin than the most commonly followed world religions.
Specious argument my friend.

sogdianrock · 61-69, M

hi Samson2000
I said so myself in an answer here in part at least. I take on board what you say though - posing questions isn't easy! I do actually learn from posing a question such as this. I ask because I do not know or at least expect to get some interesting points - such as yours. Rhetoric is a collection of devices some more creditable than others.
Best wishes
:)

EllaDisenchanted · F

It helps to make a distinction between religion and belief, as well. Religion is man made, usually following tradition over actual doctrine. Belief is simply belief. I've seen people believe the Bible out of faith as well as seen people believe in the Bible but heap rituals and nonBiblical dogma a top it.

sogdianrock · 61-69, M

hi EllaDisenchanted
Sure but regarding faith this requires a surrendering of self and so is this act not a cynical abandonment of our individual responsibility for our own happiness and inner state of mind?
best wishes
:)

EllaDisenchanted · F

@sogdianrock Depends on the faith, I'd think. Biblical wise a believer whom truly believes and knows the Gospel is held to account for all they do. Yes, we're forgiven the consequences of our sin in the eternal sense BUT we still have to live with the day to day consequences of our actions.

For example, we can not say "oh, satan made me do it" like some like to think as we know how satan operates (the roaring lion), we know the hallmarks of leaning towards evil and away from God (backsliding and consequences of actions) and we know how to escape that snare. If we pretend we don't then we not only are lying but directly sinning in the face of God.

But if we look towards Jesus when He tells us to have mercy on others then we shall have the joy of giving that mercy. That we are freely given the gift of salvation despite our own ability to secure it ourselves, especially knowing human nature, brings great happiness. God gives us plenty of ways to happiness and peace if we just take a few moments to appreciate life and the blessings given and appreciate those around us.

But you do also find other people whom, through individual philosophy or religious dogma, have built a wall around them to escape accountability. I've a friend whom is catholic which never seems truly happy with himself or others but he's very devoted to mass and ritual and lighting candles and praying the rosary and all those trappings. I've another whom is hindu and her way of dealing with things is "well nothing I do really matters because karma will do what it will". If something good happens then it's due to her because the universe willed it. If something bad happens it's because past karma. So she doesn't really consider her actions because 'it doesn't matter' attitude.

sogdianrock · 61-69, M

hi EllaDisenchanted
Interesting.
I meant religions provide a social framework to tell us what is right and wrong and to provide security through answers - which are comforting stories. My point is we can do this for ourselves through reason and so to adopt a religion is an abandonment of our responsibility to manage our own mind.
Best wishes
:)

LordSillio · 36-40, M

Hmm.. trick is not a kind word, it's a disrespectful way since we are living to respect each other for each other's choices.. this generation abandoned rhetoric, n religion more than ever in any civilisation, and it didn't make us better.. if people didn't die in wars out of greed, they'll die in obesity or suicidal. I guess we better come out with a solution. A new one

sogdianrock · 61-69, M

hi LordSillio
Well someone must know if a religion is a trick. I suppose once it has got going it could be an honest mistake but really trick is appropriate as philosophy has been around a log time also.
I suppose the only way of asking this question is to pose it. Sure it is disrespectful if it were untrue but plenty of religions kill atheists. I am not proposing that.
I agree answers are needed and I think philosophy should be taught so we all know what we do and don't know. Logic is taught in some countries to everyone from an early age.
Philosophy is an old solution!
Best wishes
:)

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LieutenantDansLegs · 31-35, M

logic has no place here!? what do you think you're doing?!

sogdianrock · 61-69, M

hi LieutenantDansLegs
logos is a rhetorical device.
Logos is the logic behind an argument. Logos tries to persuade an audience using logical arguments and supportive evidence. Logos is a persuasive technique often used in writing and rhetoric. Ancient Greek philosophers used the term in different ways.
I am wherever I lay my hat.
best wishes
:)

ButterRobot · 51-55, M

Is this a quote ?

sogdianrock · 61-69, M

hi anchorman
It is now!
haha no I thunked it all with my own head.
best wishes
:)

Zonuss · 41-45, M

No. But they do coincide with one another. Or correlate. 😐

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