Do you think the Republican party should reform?

@Abstraction it was a fraud. There is no point in elections with democrats involved.

@MasterLee You mean because nearly every time more people vote democrat??😷

@whowasthatmaskedman no

@Abstraction

Voter fraud has been a part of the America election process since the 18th century and a bunch of Democrats and their media stooges suddenly saying otherwise isn't enough to convince millions and millions of Americans otherwise. Shoe on the other foot and Democrats and their media stooges would be screaming and yelling "voter fraud".

Our elections systems are porous. They have leaks. Why? for the same reasons why our tax systems have holes in them, for the same reasons all our laws have slivers or gaps. Our election laws, like our tax laws are written by politicians who try to game the system in their favor. They try to write laws that favor their friends and disadvantage their non-friends.

I've been hearing about voter fraud since I heard about elections for the first time. Doesn't the whole world know about how Lyndon Johnson became a member of congress thanks to that mysterious ballot box 13? Doesn't practically every big city in America have stories about political bosses rigging the system?

The claims of voter fraud of the scale that Trump says have been examined and found to be baseless, thrown out of every court very quickly, even by Trump-appointed judges and republican state officials. You're welcome to your post-truth fairyland dream, though, if that's what keeps you going.

@Abstraction Thank you!
It's true that the "reforms" I suggested were so minor that they would make no difference.
The Reps are in a woeful state because, in order to gain power, they were willing to align themselves with subgroups of people who do not support democracy.
Trumpism is not Republicanism. I wish I had memorised the names, but I saw on the news yesterday that two Rep representatives said they did not vote for impeachment because they feared that they and their families would be lynched by Trumpists.

@Abstraction Yes. 56 court cases, and in not one was any evidence of voter fraud presented.
Denial of reality has always been both mad and dangerous.
Now we see it happening on a massive scale.
Does it mean a need for reform of education?

@hartfire I think education needs to strengthen Information Literacy: how to identify pseudoscience. How to identify conspiracy theories. Etc.

@Abstraction

[quote]The claims of voter fraud of the scale that Trump says have been examined and found to be baseless[/quote]

This yet another example of Democrat misinformation.

Finding a link to the wordings of actual court rulings seems to be a game of hide-and-seek, with Democrats and their media stooges using words like "baseless", "no fraud", etc. rather than relaying what the courts said.

From what I could find, those court rulings were based on timing, meaning that Trump's suits about the process should have been filed and resolved prior to the elections and not after the elections. That's not quite the same as "baseless" and "no fraud".

As I recall the 2016 election, team Clinton was busy until the day before the electoral college voted, trying to convince members of the electoral college that they didn't have to vote the way their state populace voted. Politicians, whether Republican or Democrat have attempted to upend the results of elections since the beginning of the republic.

Why don't we have near flawless election systems with accuracies that compare to how banks account for deposits and withdrawals? Probably for the same reason why we don't have an immigration system that's both fair and compassionate, and that also protects our borders; and why our education and health care systems are so expensive. Answer: because politicians prefer broken systems, because politicians go to Washington to represent their political parties and not their constituents. And the most important thing for political parties is to gain and hold political power, and not to serve the American people.

@Heartlander Ok, let me feed back to you what you just said:
[quote]From what I could find... court rulings were based on timing, meaning that Trump's suits about the process should have been filed and resolved prior to the elections and not after the elections.[/quote]
1. People should file court cases prior to a crime being committed? I don't know who made that suggestion to you, but it doesn't sound like they are very knowledgeable. That's nonsensical.
2. Trump had access to the best lawyers in the land who filed 62 legal cases and lost every one (except one on 3 days to cure ballots) because they didn't know the law and made technical errors? 61 times? A first year graduate lawyer would be torn to shreds by their firm for these kind of errors. It's simply not credible. You have to recall too, that some of the judges were appointed by Trump - clearly not Democrat stooges.
[quote]Finding a link to the wordings of actual court rulings seems to be a game of hide-and-seek[/quote]
3. I'm not from the USA but I found them in 5 minutes on the state supreme court websites. I started with wikipedia and looked for their references. The ones I looked at are consistent with the way they were reported. Mostly they were thrown out as baseless claims.
[quote]As I recall the 2016 election, team Clinton was busy until the day before the electoral college voted, trying to convince members of the electoral college that they didn't have to vote the way their state populace voted. Politicians, whether Republican or Democrat have attempted to upend the results of elections since the beginning of the republic.[/quote]
4. I'm not democrat, so I criticise them for wrongdoing as well. The 'faithless electors' on both sides in 2016 election shows a real flaw with the electoral college system. Appalling.
[quote]Why don't we have near flawless election systems with accuracies that compare to how banks account for deposits and withdrawals?[/quote]
5. Well the evidence, backed by the courts, is that it was pretty close to very accurate. And that even republican sympathetic election officials and state politicians checked and rechecked and defended the results.
However, I totally agree with you that many politicians lack integrity and gerrymanders are a good indication of that.

@MasterLee That makes no sense. How could there be any democracy if there were no alternative party to vote for?

@hartfire there will be

@Abstraction a great rebuttal!!