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Exclude Illegal Aliens From Census?
The Supreme Court on Friday agreed to review a Trump administration effort to exclude illegal aliens from the 2020 census count that is used to apportion congressional seats.

In an unsigned order the justices set a Nov. 30 date to hear oral arguments from the parties.

A three-judge panel in a New York district court in September ruled that Trump’s memorandum excluding illegal aliens from congressional apportionment count was an illegal overreach of the president’s authority as delegated by Congress. The judges on that panel declared the memo, which was issued on July 21, as unlawful and subsequently blocked it from being implemented.

It boils down to this; should people in the US illegally be counted in the census for the purpose of the reapportionment of Congress members following the 2020 census.

What do you think?
Ephebe · 22-25, F
Would it harm the quality of the data collected if you started excluding people?
Budwick · 70-79, M
[@1155038,Ephebe] They want to exclude illegal immigrants for the Congressional apportionment - not the total. The idea is to have apportionment based on the number of [i][b]citizens [/b][/i]being represented within a district.
HazelMotes · M
[@841775,Budwick] What about permanent residents with green cards?

The reason to include illegal immigrants is because in most cases, they pay taxes and use services, same as citizens do.
Budwick · 70-79, M
[@1026,HazelMotes] Pretending illegal aliens have citizen rights fucks up any reasonable conversation.

Deport them - then the pot will be right.
Seats should be based on how many people voted in that state, not how many live there
[@580625,QuixoticSoul] I dont get the reference
HazelMotes · M
[@843186,NunIover] So citizens who pay taxes but don’t vote shouldn’t count?
[@1026,HazelMotes] exactly 👍🏾
BobGrant45 · 70-79, M
Trump is, of course, right again. The US Census should only count American citizens, not illegal aliens, and really not Indian tribals who insist on not being Americans. Democrats who want to include illegals are not loyal Americans either.

President Roosevelt said it right.

Budwick · 70-79, M
[@733785,SomeMichGuy] He never says illegal aliens either.

He does mention loyalty to the American people too.

And, Teddy's quote is not part of the Constitution.

Just so ya know.
[@841775,Budwick] [quote]And, Teddy's quote is not part of the Constitution.[/quote]

That was my point, "just so you know"...but I won't waste my time with your trolling any more.
Budwick · 70-79, M
[@733785,SomeMichGuy] Don't run away Some Guy!
You forgot to address a coupe things.

[quote]He never says illegal aliens either.

He does mention loyalty to the American people too.[/quote]
AbbeyRhode · F
I agree with it. They don't belong here, and they are not "entitled" to anything; government handouts, driver licenses, free housing, free medical, or being able to vote. The only thing they deserve is a one-way trip back where they came from.
TexChik · F
It should absolutely become law to exclude illegals from the census . Tax payer Money has been siphoned off by corrupt politicians as result of illegally inflated census numbers , as well as representation in Congress . I suspect several democrat house seats would disappear
CopperCicada · 51-55, M
I figured the federal government would want to know where the illegal immigrants were so that they could better allocate ICE and other law enforcement resources. So I'd think we'd want as detailed information on illegals as people would be willing to provide.

One can have statistics on illegal immigrants on the census and not use those statistics for reapportionment. One can have statistics on illegal immigrants on the census and not even use those statistics for the distribution of certain forms of federal aid.

It's a political wank.
beckyromero · 31-35, F
[quote]should people in the US illegally be counted in the census for the purpose of the reapportionment of Congress members following the 2020 census.[/quote]

Quite simply, yes.

That is if you wish to follow the U.S. Constitution.

Original Text:

[quote]Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.[/quote]

Slaves were the "three fifths of all other Persons." The 14th Amendment decreed that all persons "born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

So, no more "three-fifths" accounting for slaves in the Census.

Undocumented immigrants are not slaves; they are "free Persons."

And the 14th Amendment makes it again makes it clear to count "persons."

[quote]Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed.[/quote]

It makes a point to [b]ONLY[/b] exclude "Indians not taxed."

Nor does it say to count only "citizens."

You so-called strict-constructionalists are always crying about wanting to go by what the Constitution says. Then when something is clear as crystal it's "But what it really means is..."
Budwick · 70-79, M
[@733785,SomeMichGuy] This guy Rakove - is he a justice of the supreme court?
[@841775,Budwick] No he is a historian of the Constitution & Revolution.

Doesn't mean he cannot raise valid historical points, and a true originalist would welcome this viewpoint.
Budwick · 70-79, M
[@733785,SomeMichGuy] Yeah, from what I know of the guy, he's been studying ways to try and alter what the founders meant for decades now.

So, unless he can sell his snake oils to the court, what he has to say is meaningless anyway.
rhumbline · 70-79, M
Cant se why illegals should have representation in Congress, makes no sense.
[@841775,Budwick] lol

Check out 13 USC Sec. 141.

It is a "census of population", a term of art defined at 13 USC Sec. 141(g). of 1 April.

You can use a dictionary to look at population & inhabitant, but the notion does not include people visiting on vacation. People with an address are intended to be counted, and residents without a fixed address ("homeless") have been counted as best can be done.

But you can type and intake visual information when encoded in linguistic symbolic notation, so go use Google yourself and waste your own time, troll.
Budwick · 70-79, M
[@733785,SomeMichGuy] Be sure to bring this documentation with you to the Supreme Court.
[@841775,Budwick] Just go read, troll.
QuixoticSoul · 36-40, M
Let's see what "originalists" will do with "the whole number of persons".
Platinum · M
Perhaps you should ask the families of three who got their heads cut off in France by illegal immigrant....

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