Yes It Can Happen Here. And We Have A Choice
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61-69, M
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Ynotisay · M
It's an apt analogy with a couple of differences. Today we have the internet which I think has played an enormous role in the creation and perpetuation of the cult. This wouldn't have happened pre-internet. But Hitler, while being a drug addict and clearly a sociopath, was in his 40's and 50's. Trump is in his late 70's and, while also having some clear mental disorders along with a purported drug addiction, is losing his cognitive abilities. He's not well. He also doesn't have the intelligence, stamina or runway to "take over" a country. But their methodologies are amazing similar. It's the same playbook that's been used throughout history. You'd like to think people could at least recognize that but many don't. Speaks to how easily manipulation can take hold.
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BohemianBoo · M
@Ynotisay
While this is a fair point, it should also be easier to tell when someone is lying. Back when the Nazis were using conspiracy theories to get people to side with them, it wasn't easy to debunk their lies. You'd have to spend some serious time at a library, which were eventually taken under control by the Nazis. Same happened in Italy, Spain, Austria, and Portugal when the Fascists took over.
Today, it's extremely easy to debunk lies. When Trump says crime is out of control under Biden, we can easily look up the stats and see that crime has actually gone down under Biden. I don't know how genuine the people who supported the Nazis were back then, but today it's clear that the Trump Cult is choosing to reject truth.
It's an apt analogy with a couple of differences. Today we have the internet which I think has played an enormous role in the creation and perpetuation of the cult. This wouldn't have happened pre-internet.
While this is a fair point, it should also be easier to tell when someone is lying. Back when the Nazis were using conspiracy theories to get people to side with them, it wasn't easy to debunk their lies. You'd have to spend some serious time at a library, which were eventually taken under control by the Nazis. Same happened in Italy, Spain, Austria, and Portugal when the Fascists took over.
Today, it's extremely easy to debunk lies. When Trump says crime is out of control under Biden, we can easily look up the stats and see that crime has actually gone down under Biden. I don't know how genuine the people who supported the Nazis were back then, but today it's clear that the Trump Cult is choosing to reject truth.
Ynotisay · M
@BohemianBoo Exactly. It's a rejection of truth. Just like what was done then but the rejection was based on not having access to the truth. It's why despots most always control the media. And that's what most infuriating. The truth is accessible but you have to want to find it. Outside of so many wanting their beliefs to be fed, algorithms keep people in a bubble. And in my opinion that's something that needs to be dealt with like yesterday.
I'm not a Twitter person but I went there once, commented on some freak MAGA's post and then the next thing I knew my feed was almost entirely posts from right wingers. It blew my mind. At a place like "X," it's not about helping someone navigate towards things they might have interest in. It's about controlling access, to a lazy population, to serve an agenda. When all you're fed is anger, hate, fear and enemies, people who are more susceptible to that kind of thing personalize it all. And then they're let loose in to society. Which includes having the ability to vote.
I'm not a Twitter person but I went there once, commented on some freak MAGA's post and then the next thing I knew my feed was almost entirely posts from right wingers. It blew my mind. At a place like "X," it's not about helping someone navigate towards things they might have interest in. It's about controlling access, to a lazy population, to serve an agenda. When all you're fed is anger, hate, fear and enemies, people who are more susceptible to that kind of thing personalize it all. And then they're let loose in to society. Which includes having the ability to vote.
BohemianBoo · M
@Ynotisay I think in both cases, the Authoritarians in power rejected truth. But if you don't have access to truth, then I wouldn't call it a rejection. The people who sincerely believed that Marxists were promoting homosexuality in order to destroy society, they weren't rejecting truth, they were just duped by propaganda.
Even today, I'm sure there are people who are so deeply lost in the sauce that they believe Trump's lies. But that seems more and more to be the exception. The average Trumpcuck can see evidence that debunks Trump's lies, but just chooses to ignore it. They start deflecting like crazy because they know they're wrong.
Even today, I'm sure there are people who are so deeply lost in the sauce that they believe Trump's lies. But that seems more and more to be the exception. The average Trumpcuck can see evidence that debunks Trump's lies, but just chooses to ignore it. They start deflecting like crazy because they know they're wrong.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Is it an effective strategy to compare Trump to Hitler?
Don't get me wrong, there are some alarming historical parallels. I don't think it's even much of an exaggeration to call Trump and the MAGA cult fascist. He and they are definitely potential or proto-fascists.
Judging by the polls, most Americans seem either not to think that or just don't care. For them, the black-and-white pictures of 30s Germany are abstract and alien. Maybe jackboots and swastikas are too stylistically different to be relatable, making the comparison seem partisan and hyperbolic.
Yes, I know the Lincoln Project are themselves Conservatives but they represent what is now a tiny and ostracised faction within American Conservatism. The Republican Party is now something else and the Lincoln Project probably get most of their donations from liberals.
I don't know what the answer is. I also think that American swing voters should see the historical parallels and should see January 6th as a warning about the future erosion of Democracy but from here, it maybe seems that they don't/
Yet I am an ocean away so what do I know? Do you American liberals think that enough people are buying this kind of warning?
Don't get me wrong, there are some alarming historical parallels. I don't think it's even much of an exaggeration to call Trump and the MAGA cult fascist. He and they are definitely potential or proto-fascists.
Judging by the polls, most Americans seem either not to think that or just don't care. For them, the black-and-white pictures of 30s Germany are abstract and alien. Maybe jackboots and swastikas are too stylistically different to be relatable, making the comparison seem partisan and hyperbolic.
Yes, I know the Lincoln Project are themselves Conservatives but they represent what is now a tiny and ostracised faction within American Conservatism. The Republican Party is now something else and the Lincoln Project probably get most of their donations from liberals.
I don't know what the answer is. I also think that American swing voters should see the historical parallels and should see January 6th as a warning about the future erosion of Democracy but from here, it maybe seems that they don't/
Yet I am an ocean away so what do I know? Do you American liberals think that enough people are buying this kind of warning?
BohemianBoo · M
@Burnley123
Yes, but you have to be very specific and accurate, so people don't dismiss you as just doing Godwin's Law.
Something I've pointed out is that Project 2025 is all about firing every non-political person in the government and replacing them with people based on their loyalty to Trump. This is very similar to how Heinrich Himmler's SS didn't swear loyalty to Germany, like earlier paramilitary groups, rather they swore loyalty to Adolf Hitler directly. In both cases, you have the country being remade where patriotism and civic responsibility is not about the country, instead it's about one individual. This is a clear example of Authoritarianism.
Is it an effective strategy to compare Trump to Hitler?
Yes, but you have to be very specific and accurate, so people don't dismiss you as just doing Godwin's Law.
Something I've pointed out is that Project 2025 is all about firing every non-political person in the government and replacing them with people based on their loyalty to Trump. This is very similar to how Heinrich Himmler's SS didn't swear loyalty to Germany, like earlier paramilitary groups, rather they swore loyalty to Adolf Hitler directly. In both cases, you have the country being remade where patriotism and civic responsibility is not about the country, instead it's about one individual. This is a clear example of Authoritarianism.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@BohemianBoo I think (talking specifics) it's better to compare Trump to Viktor Orban. Whether a small European country is relatable to average Americans, I do not know.
BohemianBoo · M
@Burnley123 Maybe. If you want to get technical, Trump is way more similar to Hermann Göring than Hitler, anyway. He's an opportunist with no strong beliefs outside of power.
Unfortunately, most Americans don't know what's going on in Hungary, if they even know that country exists. And while Putin is more well known, Russia never had Democracy and then lost it. So I dunno, I think if we want people to wake up and realize we can go from a Republic to a Dictatorship, the Nazis are the best example. Though I do use examples from the Soviet Union too.
Unfortunately, most Americans don't know what's going on in Hungary, if they even know that country exists. And while Putin is more well known, Russia never had Democracy and then lost it. So I dunno, I think if we want people to wake up and realize we can go from a Republic to a Dictatorship, the Nazis are the best example. Though I do use examples from the Soviet Union too.
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LeopoldBloom · M
@Diotrephes Try saying that Black people were better off as slaves and see what happens. Or openly advocate for the age of consent to be abolished. Antisemitism isn't the only viewpoint that can get you in trouble, although since Oct. 7, you can get away with a lot more antisemitism with no repercussions.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@LeopoldBloom
Have you forgotten this sweetheart so quickly?
Ron DeSantis’s “Slavery Was a Good Thing” Curriculum Weirdly Unpopular Among GOP Hopefuls
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/07/ron-desantis-florida-slavery-curriculum
Try saying that Black people were better off as slaves and see what happens. Or openly advocate for the age of consent to be abolished. Antisemitism isn't the only viewpoint that can get you in trouble, although since Oct. 7, you can get away with a lot more antisemitism with no repercussions.
Have you forgotten this sweetheart so quickly?
Ron DeSantis’s “Slavery Was a Good Thing” Curriculum Weirdly Unpopular Among GOP Hopefuls
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/07/ron-desantis-florida-slavery-curriculum
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