@Torsten While Cleopatra was mostly Macedonian Greek, there is some doubt in the historical record as to who her maternal grandmother was. The woman may have been Persian or Ethiopian, so there is a chance that Cleopatra was at least part Black. Race wasn't viewed the same way back then as it is today. The hysteria over the casting choice in this version is just silly. Cleopatra probably looked a lot more like Adele James than she looked like Elizabeth Taylor.
I have very mixed views (not typical conservative or liberal) but I was tending to lean more towards conservative ideas due to liberals really trampling on rights. Then I saw this in the US and I really couldn't believe that they had done this, I backed away from it. Anyway, thanks for the good news. I'd never personally have an abortion but I can't imagine telling any woman she HAS to have an unwanted baby. Another example of the war on women.
Yes, rape is in male prisons too but women are easy prey for these convicted rapists (who easily overpower women's bodies with their male hands and many who have a penis to rape with). Many prisons have children in them too and convicted trans pedos gain access to the children in there.
As far as other women's spaces, there have been quite a few convicted sexual assault cases by trans in those spaces as well.
I absolutely know trans have more rights than others and I don't think I have that much control over what DeSantis does but I'm very happy to see him protecting women. It's sad that so many fall into the trap of not protecting women for fear of not being politically correct.
@Angelwarfare Can you please provide evidence of men in women's prisons and children in adult prisons? Because in the United States, they're kept separate. Maybe you're in a different country where they're all mixed together? Or you're just repeating nonsense you heard on Tucker Carlson?
My opinion was and will always remain; the choice to abort should be left to the patient and their doctor. Politicians have no business tailoring laws which so far lack in medical considerations to regulate what's beyond their understanding. Same applies to the public.
@Angelwarfare Good luck getting a vasectomy. I was 35 when I had mine, and had to argue with the doctor who was concerned that I would change my mind and want more children later. The copay was also ten times what it was for any other procedure. And from what I hear, it's even harder for women to get sterilized, especially younger women.
@CestManan That's fine. I was just commenting on your characterization of women who have abortions. Many of them are very responsible and not at all like your description.
Some day it might become an issue. Not the abortion thing -. The fact that Americans can't govern themselves democratically and the regime in Washington has gone rogue on them. Not just one issue, but on almost all issues, Americans don't get their way. But sticking to the abortion thing is understandable! You aren't ready to open that can of worms.
@Roundandroundwego What do you mean, "it might become an issue?" It has been an issue for a long time, and is definitely an issue since the Dobbs decision came out last year. There have been six elections since then where abortion was on the ballot in some form or other, and abortion rights won in each by a wide margin. If young people and others who normally don't vote come out in large numbers next year, there could be a Democratic wave which will definitely make a difference.
@Lila15 the fact that the majority do not get their way in any US political matters - not the abortion issue - may one day become interesting to US citizens. Can't you read it? Other issue- democracy - comes first or we just wander. Other issue-democracy is subject of phrase there. Not abortion per se.
@Roundandroundwego Well, yes. The House is gerrymandered, the Senate gives too much power to low-population states, and the Electoral College was invented to make sure that the slave states weren't outvoted by the more populous free states. It's not a coincidence that so many early presidents were from Virginia, the slave state with the highest population at the time. And today, our lives are decided by the Supreme Court, of which five members were appointed by presidents that lost the popular vote, and confirmed by a Senate majority representing a minority of Americans.
I've read about Iraq under Saddam Hussein, where the country was ruled by people who basically came from one village. It's not that bad here but it's not that far off. One supposed advantage of a parliamentary system is that the majority votes in their representatives, who get to enact their agenda, and if the people don't like it, a different majority can vote them out. Of course, it doesn't always work that way but that's the theory.
@Aliveshock Yeah, there's no way the Democrats end up with 60 votes in 2024. The only way that happens is if there's some game-changing event where people abandon the Republican party.
and more and more people are utterly miserable now compared to ever before. Yeah that is not what you are talking about as in with abortions but my point is it seems society has turned in a direction to make not as happy as they once were. You call this "moving in the right direction" and i argue that as being wrong
@Torsten You're welcome to disapprove of the direction society is going, but it's pretty obvious that the Dobbs decision was viewed negatively by more Americans and resulted in this trend. Your side would have been better off if the Supreme Court had refused to hear the case.
People are miserable for many reasons, among them, draconian abortion laws.
There's almost always an upswing when dumb shit like this happens. The religious kooks' hearts are in the right place, I just wish they had their heads on right.
Darrell Huff wrote an interesting guide back in the 1950's called, "How To Lie With Statistics".
I'm sure you could find charts like this in favor of whatever you wanted them to favor.
I'm sure you can find at least 5 other explanations for these peoples' behavior.
Where does believing they're being unreasonably spiteful leave you? Does it give you a course for action? Does it give you a course for healing or growth? Or does it leave you stuck feeling that way?
Do you want to carry that around in you? That heavy presumption, that these people are evil and control half the world?
I just wouldn't know what to do with that feeling. I feel like it would just snowball over time. What would stop me from inevitably presuming that about everyone?
@SnailTeeth There is, of course, a lot of variation among PL folks. I spend time on the Reddit abortion debate sub, and there are plenty of PL on there who say they do support things like free contraception, paid maternity leave, socialized medicine, etc. But if they end up voting for politicians who propose the death penalty for women who have abortions, none of that nuance makes a difference.
I support legal abortion, so it doesn't really matter if I demonize the other side or not. We just need to outvote them.
@Lila15 That's what I was trying to say. I think every action has an equal and opposite reaction in almost all aspects of universal existence.
We're all people trying our best. Some of us are so stuck in our own hatred, that it's all we know how to regurgitate into the world. It can get so bad, that we don't even consider it hatred, and we can't hear outside ourselves because we feel so stressed and under attack from within without knowing we're doing it to ourselves.
I don't think they're bad people, I think they just have habitual thinking problems. They meditate on the blemishes instead of the highlights. They take their directive from a place that has obfuscated fundamental origins.
I don't think religion is always the answer, I think sometimes it creates rigid immoveable constructs of thought, that inhibit personal development. I respect spirituality to a degree, but if we let our feelings rule our lives, that can easily lead to a path of losing control.
Gallop might get even more accuracy if they called anti-abortion what it is or at least anti-choice. They're obviously not more pro-life than anyone else.
@SW-User It does depend on how you ask the question. You will get very different responses if you ask "should parents be able to kill their own children" or "should the government decide if people have children or not." Gallop has been around for a long time, and I'm pretty sure they know how to ask questions to get an accurate response.
@JPWhoo But then pro-lifers would want to call our side "pro-abortion," implying that we think all pregnancies should end in abortion. At some point you have to accept that the inaccurate terms are the ones most people understand. You can't expend a paragraph every time you want to mention a pro-lifer to explain whatever other term you're using.
On the Reddit abortion sub, they require PL and PC, and you can be banned if you call someone "pro-abortion" or a "forced birther." Everyone also uses ZEF (zygote/embryo/fetus) to refer to humans in utero.
@Lila15 But it’s so unfair to call them “pro-life”. I mean, if you call them that you’ve already lost the debate. Without explaining what they mean, ask any kindergartner whether she’d rather be pro-choice or pro-life. What do you think the vast majority of them would say?
Imagine, if you will, this absurd scenario: in the fictional sovereign nation of Whooistan religious fundamentalists are leading a grassroots movement to pass a law requiring all citizens when they reach the age of 21 to enter a draft not for military service but for clown service, and they must each work ten years as a clown. What do you think would be an appropriate name for this movement? Forced Clown supporters?
Well in Whooistan it is generally accepted that the two sides of the issue are called pro-choice and pro-happiness. Do you accept those terms of debate? Now, now, you must call them pro-happiness, otherwise they should get to call you pro-undertaker (replace undertaker with the name of a drearier profession if you can think of one).
Do we really just have to go with what’s become generally accepted, or should we try to change the framing of a debate if it’s being framed improperly?
@JPWhoo I don't like the terms PC and PL either, but those are the terms we're stuck with. You can try to change them, but good luck, at this point I wouldn't know how to do that.
SW-User
Yes, that does not surprise me.
Most people also do not support abortion bans.
Hence why most of these bans are not voted on directly.
@LordShadowfire I've heard that if each state could vote on a referendum, abortion would only be illegal in maybe 5 or 6 states. The problem is that while a lot of Republicans are pro-choice, they're not single-issue voters. So support for abortion rights might not translate into support for Democrats. That being said, there is a judicial election in Wisconsin right now and the pro-choice judge is way ahead in the polls.
