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Did Israel deliberately target the aid workers?

José Andrés, the boss of World Kitchen finds it implausible that this could have been an accident.

"This was not just a bad luck situation where, 'Oops, we dropped a bomb in the wrong place,'" Andrés told the Reuters news agency, stressing that his team's vehicles were clearly marked and "it's very clear who we are and what we do."

"They were targeting us in a deconflicting zone, in an area controlled by IDF. They, knowing that it was our teams moving on that road... with three cars," he said, adding that he believed the seven aid workers killed by the strike in Gaza were targeted "systematically, car by car."

"The airstrikes on our convoy I don't think were an unfortunate mistake," he told Israel's Channel 12 in a separate interview. "It was really a direct attack on clearly marked vehicles whose movements were known by everybody at the IDF."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-gaza-world-central-kitchen-strike-jose-andres-direct-attack-aid-workers/

But wait: this makes no sense, right? Israel is doing all of this to get Hamas. Israel is an ally and cares about human rights?

It would make no sense at all if those were actually the war aims. However, if you think (as I have since the start) that Israel's aim is the full depopulation of Gaza, then targeting aid workers is entirely consistent with that. The diplomatic pressure put in Egypt to take refugees, the indiscriminate targeting of civilians, the destruction of hospitals, the restriction on even the American military's relief efforts... It all points to one thing: making life in the Gaza Strip so intolerable that none of the two million people can live there.

Most people in Gaza are close to starvation and now less food is getting in because civilian aid workers are terrified of being taken out by and IDF missile strike. Sure, targeting people who are citizens of allied countries gives you a diplomatic hit but they have got away with everything else so far, so why not push things a little further? Some people will still believe them and Western politicians can go on pretending.

Our governments are still giving Israel, money, arms and diplomatic cover. How many more people will die before that changes?

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BritishFailedAesthetic · M

Owen Jones very interestingly pointed out that a chief advisor to the IDF General said that aid should be prevented to Gaza.

Bare in mind world kitchen shared their coordinates with the IDF.

MethDozer · M

@BritishFailedAesthetic 👆

Richard65 · M

Novara reported an IDF commander confirming that the troops were given specific orders NOT to target the convoy. However, in his words, they ignored the order and launched the strike of their own accord. The commander said it was disturbing (to him) that IDF troops on the ground choose to ignore direct orders from their superiors.

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Richard65 · M

@Burnley123 I don't think it was an accident. Possibly, drone operators ignored commands not to target the convoy and launched an attack on it on purpose. That it was a deliberate action by them to ignore orders. I agree it might be an organised act of plausible deniability, but it was definitely not accidental.

My point is whether it was rogue troops knowingly ignoring orders, or if the order to strike was given by command.

JSul3 · 70-79

@Richard65 Recall those situations where IDF shot and killed unarmed civilians?

Richard65 · M

@JSul3 yes, I do. I'm not saying it was an accident. My point was the release of a statement from IDF Command, saying the aid convoy WAS targeted on purpose by IDF soldiers, but those soldiers acted rogue and were not following official orders from their superiors.

Northwest · M

The Netanyahu government is executing one of its goals: clear Gaza out. Part of its river to the sea strategy. For those unaware, that’s an orthodox slogan.

By admitting the “mistake”, the government gets back to business as usual.

Haaretz said that those involved have already been disciplined.

My proof? Who’s seeking justice for the other 200 or so aid workers already murdered?

GlitterEater · 36-40, F

The only alternative to it being intentional is that the IDF operates with total incompetence and disregard over who they kill.

JSul3 · 70-79

@GlitterEater The IDF operates with impunity....because it's Israel, and they can never do wrong.

BS.

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Elessar · 26-30, M

@GlitterEater May be both?

CountScrofula · 41-45, M

> How many more people will die before that changes?

Considering that the result of this was Biden saying "maybe we won't sell you as many weapons in the future" after approving a mass arms sale to Israel, the answer is a lot more.

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Elessar · 26-30, M

@CountScrofula Correct me if I'm wrong but Biden alone couldn't do shìt when the aid was passed by Congress; or better he could at most not sign it and get impeached (exactly like Trump got impeached for doing the same thing with Ukraine in 2019).

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Elessar To be impeached you have to have done something illegal.

The Biden administration keeps writing the bills that fund Israel. He could stop or threaten to stop doing this. If a pro-Israel bill came from Congress, the President has the power of veto.

So, absolutely Biden could stop this.

Elessar · 26-30, M

@Burnley123 Yeah but it doesn't mean they wouldn't try, maybe with something generic like abuse of power. Also technically that's only required for conviction, to be impeached you just need the House to accept the charge, no? Similarly, Trump was impeached and then acquitted.

Even if eventually he's found not guilty, that alone would potentially cause a fracture that would be picked up and amplified out of proportion by the media, that is something he wouldn't risk in an election year, or at least not this far from the election month, or even anytime before the election day.

JimboSaturn · 51-55, M

They claim that intel was given from a grainy footage of a drone that showed a gun in the car in error. They did break the rules of engagement anyway. Also the convoy was on a known humanitarian aid route a certain time of day when aid arrives.

Weather deliberate or not, very poor effort. They don't seem to care about the population (obviously!).

SW-User

Seems like Israel can get away with targeting whomever they want as long as they say "we thought Hamas was hiding with them".

graphite · 61-69, M

Apparently, some of the "aid workers" are actually Hamas terrorists. None of this would be happening if Hamas terrorists didn't invade Israel, kill 1,200+ Israelis and rape and kidnap countless Israelis. Now, Hamas gets to use civilians as human shields because Hamas is getting its bottom kicked by the Israelis and is duping people into sympathy.

https://nypost.com/2023/11/20/news/hamas-captives-spill-secrets-about-operating-from-hospitals-we-became-their-human-shields/

Excerpt: Hamas operatives captured by Israel admitted under interrogation that the bloodthirsty terror group callously uses hospitals and innocent civilians as human shields when launching strikes against Israeli forces.

The Israel Defense Forces released videos that showed several of the Hamas terrorists captured by Israel spilling the beans about how the group hides weapons under mattresses and poses as doctors and nurses to evade capture.

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graphite · 61-69, M

@BritishFailedAesthetic Keep on being duped. Hamas is looking for people like you to get conned. Strum a violin for the poor terrorists.

https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/un-finds-clear-convincing-information-hostages-raped-gaza-rcna141789

Excerpt. Senior United Nations official found “clear and convincing” information that hostages have been raped and sexually abused in Gaza and “reasonable grounds” to believe sexual violence, including rape and gang rape, occurred during the Oct. 7 terrorist attack led by Hamas.

BritishFailedAesthetic · M

@graphite As you know I am Anti Hamas.

InOtterWords · F

Of course they knew what they are doing. Irael prides irself on having one of the best military forces in the world, they do not make silly errors

JSul3 · 70-79

@InOtterWords And the best defense systems against attacks from rogue groups like Hamas....oh...wait.

Oster1 · M

To be clear, Israel was wrong. There were better ways...

Oster1 · M

Absolutely, they did.

metaldog · 51-55

It never occurred to me that they didn't, I just hope they pay and pay

Ynotisay · M

All well-stated but don't you think that Israel would have considered the consequences of specifically targeting them? They didn't consider public perception or the response from other nations? Particularly their allies who lost citizens in this? I don't know. I just don't see the upside or goal here. If it was to stop humanitarian aid I just don't see that happening.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Ynotisay It could well have nd up being a mistake within their own terms. Perhaps the thing that they did to push it too far.

As I said, they are taking a hit for this. You can like it to football (soccer) when a player gets a yellow card doing a foul to stop the other team scoring. It's a cost-benefit thing but maybe this time they have it wrong.

Sunak is under serious pressure to stop arms sales to Israel.

Ynotisay · M

@Burnley123 You're right. They are under serious pressure. Reporting is saying that Biden had a tense call with Netanyahu and is pushing for a cease fire. What they do now is going to influence the U.S. and other allies moving forward. But having seen some clips of IDF soliders just losing their minds and killing people without justification tells me that those on the ground might be fighting a different kind of war.

Convivial · 26-30, F

Too many!

pancakeslam · 41-45, M

Hey.
Did I make it on time to the Israel bash-fest?

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MethDozer · M

@pancakeslam HAMAS is only voted in in the Gaza Strip yet Israeli violence is in both Gaza and West bank.

pancakeslam · 41-45, M

@MethDozer "in order to" haha

funding the government of Gaza means he's bad now? come on you just want to condemn. not that I like the guy but he was voted in.

MethDozer · M

@pancakeslam No he litterally funded HAMAS and it's been admitted that it was to destabilize and neuter the moderate faction.

Go on keep supporting a genocidal apartheid regime.

MethDozer · M

Also it's important to factor in that every government and NGO is on record as stating they think it's way too dangerous at the moment to encourage foreign aid workers to deliver foreign aid. That's a very telling statement and to me is admitting without saying in order to keep peace with this "ally".

MethDozer · M

It's way too hard to think it was just whoopsie given the training, technical superiority of Israeli weapons, isreal's previous actions and words, and the entire historical documentation of Benjamin Netanyahu's aims and goals.

We know he supported funding HAMAS with the intention of destabilizing Palestine and leading to this exact scenario to give an air of just cause at eliminating Palestinian occupied land.

Is it possible it was an accident? Slightly, however this is just as problematic as it being intentional since it shows a clear lack of concern and a "Kill them all and let God sort them out" game plan

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@MethDozer I don't believe it's even possible to make this mistake.

Yea, the IDF is definitely trigger happy by marked cars in the demilitarised zone? Two missile strikes after they called it in?

It's a bit like when Pregozhin was taken out by Putin. After that, he went on Russian TV with a heartfelt story about a national hero being lost to a tragic accident. Nobody believes him but it's a performance he has to go through. The IDF are not looking for people to believe them, just the tiniest tenability of plausible deniability.

MethDozer · M

@Burnley123 Oh I agree but it's still just speculation at the core. So I won't make any absolutes from my armchair.

I don't feel well need to anyway. Any possible scenario on how this happened leads to the same basic premise of Israel planning to eradicate.

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JSul3 · 70-79

@Justice4All Short of stopping weapons sales....which the military industrial complex would go nuts...and demanding Bibi agree to a ceasefire, what do you want Biden to do? Declare war on Israel?

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