@SW-User lol

You must not be highly educated.

Smart people should know how to learn, but often did not achieve their status without help. To have actually taught oneself everything is likely to have mislearned much, since the teacher has no mastery greater than the student and cannot correct misunderstandings, etc. Or even spot if an answer in the back of a technical book is wrong.

@SomeMichGuy well, you are just blatantly wrong on that
I finished 4 years of college in 2 and a half years.

Currently, I am working on 2 books. One proposal has already been accepted. I also run a blog. I just don't mention anything here, because I don't want people to like me for my accomplishments.

Help is not guaranteed. This is why I disliked schools and colleges. You pay them. They still don't help you. You are better of reading books and journals. You can email researchers and authors when you have a question.

I didn't fully understand the last part of your response. You don't appear to write coherent sentences.

@RoxClymer I think you have made my points for me.

1) I am from the US; you are unfamiliar with the terminology in education.

Pre-school
Primary school is elementary school (through 5th grade)
Secondary school is through the end of high school.

Post-secondary education is that beyond secondary school, and usually focuses on academic education.

If one were not doing well academically in secondary school, but desired to go on to a bachelor's degree, one should be encouraged to build academic achievement, etc., via a junior college. These institutions are made to provide the pretty standard first two years of most four-year undergraduate degree programs, as well as some vocational and technical training.

2) Yes, not getting a job sucks, but labor stats show that bachelor's degrees increase income (as do other higher educational degrees [Master's, etc.]).

3)
[quote]pre-Covid it was Absolutely not worth going to college and incuring $40k-$100k worth of dept, because you are going to spend a lifetime paying it back.[/quote]

This was not my experience, debt-wise or experience-wise. If you are treating college like a job shop, you should opt for vocational training.

4) [quote]I can stretch/exercise my mind by reading any amount of the same material posted to the internet
including watching video on the same content.[/quote]

LOL

A lot of people probably believe this, but YouTube is not the same as having experts in teaching help guide you in learning, let alone experts in a field, let alone other intelligent & engaged students.

People without a solid base can't begin to do this, and challenging oneself with unfamiliar material/areas of study...well, it is harder than you might think.

Online might be a current rage, but, just like developing one's physical self, spiritual self, emotional self, it takes sustained effort. Not a five-minute video.

@SomeMichGuy

1) I have lived in 4 states, thate very greatly, Virginia, Nevada, California and Hawaii, when talking about schooling level 80% of the time people said 'high school' and 'college', not 'Secondary' and 'post-secondary', unless they were going for their masters or doctorate

2) you may have gotten a job in your field of study but I lived in a college city (Reno, UNR) for 20 years, and saw the trend grow over time of the people Not get a job in their field of study and half to uo Back to school or have 20yrs of paying back $60k.

3) you are aware that people like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, steven Hawking and Jonathan Ferguson of the Royal Armouries in the Uk have posted videos to YouTube, right?

and that something like 80 days worth of content gets uploaded on to YouTube every single day, right?
granted most of it trash, that still leaves you 10 Days of college-level information, every couple of days
programs with Lucy Worsley and Zahi Hawass

college makes you smart in 1 area
have you ever been to The Smithsonians in DC?
or Niagra Fall?
or the Museum of Modern Art
in Atlanta?
or the Arizona Memorial in Pearl Horbor?
ever been to the Hotel Del Coranado

do you know anything about the Methusela Tree?
do you know anything about Frida Kalho?

college isn't the only place to 'expand your mind' with education

try Going to paces like Gettysburg, PA, or the Jelly Belly factory in California, or the OK Corral in Tombstone, AZ ?

I like to get my info from a diffent type of expert, you may have a degree but that seems to be all you know, because of the staunch way you are defending it.

@RoxClymer

1) It doesn't matter how many states you've lived in. You are unfamiliar with this education terminology, which is not a big deal--every area tends to have its own terminology, and, if one is unfamiliar with the area, it us notba surprise.

If you were serious about what *you* say, you'd realize some of the limits of what you know, and you could easily look up these terms--as part of your self-study--but, [i]instead, you are trying to justify your ignorance.[/i]

Does that strike you as something Dr. Neil "DeGrasse"[[i]sic[/i]] Tyson or Dr. "[S]teven"[[i]sic[/i]] Hawking would do? (Or, if the former were to quote you, in writing, do you think he'd make sure to get *your* name right, to spell it correctly?)

These are not signs of the success of your program.

2) Your experience in Reno is interesting, but it's unclear if what you are saying that wave after wave of students came, and simply tried to get a job in something matching their studies right there...or something else...?

If you had information about which majors were having problems getting work, and whether or not they were good students, that would help, of course.

How did you know these students? Did you attend the institution, yourself?

3)
a) YouTube videos
Seeing a video is fine for learning how to tie a knot, flash a window you install, etc.

However, you simply canNOT compare the

"getting a sense of something" videos

by the persons whom you mention with

the level of knowledge and expertise which is required to truly UNDERSTAND the material and MAKE them.

[i]Listening to a talk, watching a video is NOT the same as understanding it "in depth".
Listening to videos by famous experts is NOT equivalent to BEING an expert, or even understanding the material.[/i]

b) [quote]college makes you smart in 1 area[/quote]

LOL
Colleges have university distribution requirements--requirememts for ALL students seeking a Bachelor's degree--which are intended to give you a more rounded education...IF you take it seriously. Have you taken basic college-level courses in a social science, a natural science, math, art, etc.? Have you had a deep study of major works (writings) of Western culture? Or any?

Many include a language requirement. Have you studied other languages?

Further, some areas require a broader education than you might think. I could go into it, but suffice it to say that engineering has requirements for all engineers which gives them a broader background, even beyond their area; pre-med has students study physics, a lot of chemistry, biology, and courses specific to humans; physics students get a lot of math; etc.

And the sheer multitude of offerings allow a person to at least attempt to be more broadly educated, or even have multiple majors. I studied several areas.

3) Other places to learn
a) Museums

[quote]have you ever been to The Smithsonians in DC? ...
or the Museum of Modern Art
in Atlanta?[/quote]

Yes, I have visited many of the Smithsonian Museums there, and the "castle".

No, I have not been to that MoMA.

I have been to other museums in WDC, Chicago, San Francisco, Houston, Toronto, Vancouver, London (the British Museum, etc.), Paris (the Louvre, etc.), Venice, Florence, Rome, Naples, Athens, Berlin...

Going to museums can be illuminating, but often is an aid in "deep study". What deep study did you do there?

b) Natural attractions
[quote]
or Niagra Fall?
do you know anything about the Methusela Tree?
[/quote]

It's "Niagara" and "Falls", and yes, I've been there several times.

Yes, I am aware of said tree.

Have you been to US National Parks such as Yellowstone, Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Grand Tetons, Craters of the Moon, Jewel Cave, Mammoth Cave, Carlsbad Cavern, Glacier, etc., etc., etc.?

Or national lakeshores, seashores, grasslands, forests, preserves?

Or such places in other countries, like Canada, Belize, etc.?

How about mountains, like the Zugspitze? Or the Great Smoky Mountains? The Grand Tetons?

How about features like Old Faithful & the colorful hot springs/pools at Yellowstone?

More to the point, how do you see visiting these places as creating "deep study"?

c) War attractions
[quote]
or the Arizona Memorial in Pearl Horbor?
try Going to paces like Gettysburg, PA
[/quote]

It's "Harbor", and no, not yet.

Gettysburg, yes, very interesting to see the actual topography.

This might add to one's understanding, but do you understand the two turning points of the Civil War? How they were turning points?

I.e., how did this lead to "deep study"?

d) Other destinations
[quote]
ever been to the Hotel Del Coranado
or the Jelly Belly factory in California,
or the OK Corral in Tombstone, AZ
[/quote]

It's "Coronado" and yes.

Never been to the Jelly Belly factory; in what way did this lead to "deep study"?

The OK Corral...no.

I could list a long list of destinations I have visited here in the US, in Canada, in Central America, in Europe.

Again, how did these visits contribute to "deep learning"?

e) People
[quote]
do you know anything about Frida Kalho?
[/quote]

Yes.

Do you know of Zeno, Descartes, Heaviside, Newton?
Of Dürer, Holbein, Michelangelo, Brunelleschi, Turner, Cole, Kandinsky?
Of Olmsted?
Of Faraday, Geiger, Rutherford, Fermi, Feynman?

I could list people all day.

Knowing *something* about a person is not proof of "deep study".

But let's get to another point:

4)
[quote]college isn't the only place to 'expand your mind' with education[/quote]

[b]True, but visiting a list of places is NOT equivalent to having a Bachelor's degree.[/b]

They can add to one's knowledge, but understanding how things fit together, why they do, etc., is really important and the difference between a pile of facts and UNDERSTANDING them.

5)
[quote]
I like to get my info from a diffent type of expert, you may have a degree but that seems to be all you know, because of the staunch way you are defending it.[/quote]

LOL

The tour guide at the Jelly Belly factory is not an "expert" unless they have a thorough understanding of the chemical or mechanical processes (but people with that level of understanding don't typically run tours).

You speak of Dr. deGrasse Tyson, Dr. Hawking...those ARE experts, and I have met many Nobel Prizewinners in natural sciences (and Peace) and studied with some. So where we differ is in how shallow one's knowledge & understanding can be and be called an "expert".

You seem to be of the opinion that true education is worthless, but you exhibit no signs of having "deeply studied" much of anything.

An engaged student in a bachelor's program should have a strong basis from which to actually go forth and do self-study, esp. with a broad background. He or she should be able to think better, express him-/herself better, etc.

Perhaps most importantly, by achieving a Bachelor's degree, he/she should understand HOW to study, research something, evaluate sources, and come up with a personal understanding & synthesis of the material in a new area.

And by being exposed to lots of areas of study, that person should have seen a wide array of patterns, which is crucial to recognizing what is going on, seeing a potential solution--problem-solving, which is a fundamental human activity.

Of course, holders of bachelor's degrees had to demonstrate their level of ability quite a lot, in order to obtain that. How did you test your knowledge? How have you demonstrated the results of your "deep study"?

@Jenny1234 Wow...sorry. 😣

Please do consider finding out about continuing on to get a bachelor's degree in an area which truly interests you. Even if you take just one class each semester, you can achieve your goal.

Check it out!

@SomeMichGuy I’m in my fifties. My priorities are different now

@Jenny1234 Yes, I see your age, and I understand that your life is not the same as it was at 20.

But your poignant reply bespeaks of a desire for a missed opportunity. Unlike time with someone who has passed, etc., chances to learn continue to abound.

More importantly, being a "non-traditional student" is more common and more accepted today than it was a 30+ yrs ago. Many places offer after-work courses, for instance.

I am just trying to encourage you to explore your options; it might be more within reach than you think!

[CAVEAT: AVOID FOR-PROFIT SCHOOLS LIKE THE FINANCIAL PLAGUE WHICH THEY ARE!]

@SomeMichGuy Admittedly, my experience might not be the typical one given how I spent my entire stay at university battling depression and had only a fleeting interest in the material. I skipped a lot of classes and skated by with average grades solely through late night cramming. I'm sure having a working relationship with professors can alter things greatly with insight into specific disciplines

Still, once people graduate from university, a lot of that knowledge isn't really retained or applicable. Between 40-45% of college grads are working jobs that don't require a degree at all, and more than half of all graduates are working jobs completely unrelated to their field of study. All of that just to end up saddled with crippling student loans.

That's the reasoning behind why I stated it was overrated. I think college is incredibly over-prescribed in society, and you even suggest as much with your observations on vocational training.

I grew up in an immigrant household that saw university as the end-all and be-all, so my approach to it was much different from yours. I didn't develop a hunger for knowledge until after I dealt with my mental illness post-graduation, and found that there are a ton of options for in-depth learning for those that wish to pursue knowledge on their own. The drawback with that route being that it doesn't have a home on a traditional resume

@SomeMichGuy I didn't have a problem with college while I was in college. I did fine. I graduated with two bachelor's degrees and picked up a minor in a third subject; all in only 5 years. I didn't have a perfect 4.0, but a 3.0 is still perfectly acceptable. It's just petty nitpicking to say I was a poor student. Just because you were a suck-up doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

My problem was that my university was geared around a recruiting pipeline to major corporations and me having no interest in working for one. Given my family's inexperience with the college process, I didn't know those would be the main opportunities afforded to me. The honest, realistic assessment 18-year-old me had was that I was smart and could make a lot of money using my smarts.

But I was also financially unable to pick up unpaid internships that would have helped give me the experience to land elsewhere. Smaller companies usually required that their entry-level employees wear multiple hats for cost effectiveness. In multiple interviews I was asked about computer skills, foreign languages, social media savvy, or salesmanship. Things that weren't part of my curriculum.

Knowledge for the sake of knowledge is all fine and good, but at the end of it all you need to have a plan for your degree. A person unfamiliar with the career services center at whatever university they have in mind, or a person that is stuck with an sub-par academic advisor, won't end up having the insights to tailor a more suitable plan for themselves, hence why I brought up the employment statistics that has become the economic reality for half of all college graduates

@WanderingSavage The fact that some people don't find work in exactly what they studied is not a surprise, but thinking of a four-year degree as a vocational certificate completely misunderstands the purpose of a good education.

Yeah, the student loan situation sucks for many.

@PrettyFlamingos they seem really chilled and have pretty good social lives.

@IndigoSavage Yah so like I said, it’s not that ya regret not being educated

@Tracos I dunno I'm not academically confident.

@IndigoSavage nobody is until they actually got their diploma.... give it a shot ;)

@Gangstress but that applies to every human being in the world ever. Everyone thinks that their experience "matters".

@IndigoSavage no its not a think - its a fact that it matters.

@IndigoSavage It does.