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I Am An Atheist

[i]"If you're a religious person, you might wanna pop out for about five minutes" -Tim Minchin[/i]

Warning: If you aren't familiar with Star Trek The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine, the second paragraph of this may be lost on you. Also, Fix that. Now. Seriously. Go away, watch both of those shows in their entirety, then come back. Seriously. Go. Now. You didn't? OK. Fine. Be like that.

Religion is having faith without scientific proof or sufficient evidence. And that's OK. That's actually an important part of science itself. I like to use the example of Alfred Wegener. And before I say any more, I am fully aware I am giving a significant amount of people traumatic flashbacks to their physics class. Bear with me. So Alfred Wegener was the scientist who theorised that the continents on our planet move. The theory of continental drift. At the time, the scientific community didn't believe that Wegener was correct because he didn't have sufficient evidence to prove his theory. Now, many years later, with the use of more accurate instruments as well as the discovery of a mechanism that explains continental drift, we accept Wegener's theory as correct. This means that there was a substantial amount of time when what Wegener said was correct, but not accepted as true by the scientific community. Just because the scientific community doesn't accept something as true now, doesn't mean that it isn't true, or that it will never be accepted. So, all of you religious people out there: Do not fear. When humans have evolved over billions of years into Gods, you will be able to prove to me scientifically that God exists!

Speaking of evolving into Gods, that was one of my favourite things about Star Trek. The omnipotent character Q was very clear that humans would in the future evolve into being even more powerful than him. Essentially, Gods. In fact, those shows' treatment of religion I really liked. Especially in Deep Space Nine. It's made clear throughout the shows that the Federation, for the most part, isn't religious. So when the Starfleet crew of Deep Space Nine encounter the "Gods" of Bajor, their immediate reaction is to call them hyper advanced aliens. I love that! They never for one second assume they're real Gods. At the same time however, they have no ill will towards the people of Bajor and their religious nature, and they accept it. Yet again, Star Trek shows us how we should live and let live, like we, for the most part, don't in real life.

[i]"And if perchance I have offended, think but this and all is mended: We'd as well be 10 minutes back in time, for all the chance you'll change your mind." -Tim Minchin[/i]
jennypenny · 70-79, F
I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree. Science neither proves or disproves God as it is concerned with the observation of natural phenomena. Of course, you must realise there is similarly no scientific proof for atheism!
Of course there never has been been any dichotomy between science and religion. It is an invention by men like Huxley. The early scientists were mostly men who believed in God. Men like Newton, faraday, Maxwell were all men who deeply believed in God as much as they believed in scientific discovery. These men believe that the universe was rational because God had designed it and could be explored by the human mind because a great mind was behind it. As the great astronomer, Kepler, said! "We are thinking God's thoughts after him!" It's only fairly recently that this false dicholtemy between science and faith has come into being. To me science indicates the orderliness in this universe was designed rather than it came together by unguided forces. The chances of that happening are so remote as to be disregarded.
RoboChloe · 26-30, F
Right, so I have managed to ascertain that you are talking about the universe, and I'm simply going to assume you're talking about it's creation, because you have not told me the specific issues which you wish to discuss. So let me be clear. Us atheists do not think we know how the universe began. We do not claim to know. We do not understand it. And we don't claim to. We certainly do not claim unnatural forces. We are simply trying to use science to find out. That's all. It's quite simple. You talk of the "issues involved" but fail to tell me what they are, so that I can accurately respond to you, then, because you fail to tell me what it is I'm supposed to be refuting, you claim I'm misinformed and lack understanding. What a twisted and disingenuous way of winning an argument. If you truly believed you could win this discussion with logic, you would not have to obscure the topics at hand. In all honesty, I have no interest in talking to someone who has no interest in a fair and open discussion, so when you are ready to try lo let your point of view stand without the support of subterfuge, we may again debate this subject.
jennypenny · 70-79, F
I'm sorry but it's you who is obscuring the argument. You haven't given me one rational reason why atheism is true. What's more you don't apoear to even understand the nature of science, which is the investigation of the natural universe. If you understood this you would not think that science can somehow prove your atheist suppositions. Anyway, nice to chat! All the best!
Moribund · 26-30, M
@jennypenny: I feel that we shouldn't be taking atheism as a sort of religion, but rather the lack of it. Truly, it is naught more than a mindset in which gods and such do not exist. Atheism, does not have to be ''true'' in essence, it's just a way of thinking, not a particular movement (although it's been slowly becoming one lately...)
As much as I dislike questioning the beliefs of others, as I live by the words ''live and let live'', I must say that in this case (referring back to one of your earlier comments in this thread) you've done so and quite rudely if I may add. Saying that Robo has accepted a theory without any evidence is kind of hypocritical, isn't it now? So far, there is no concrete evidence of the existence of god, thus making you act the exact same way. I feel that atheism (atheism according to its most broadest meaning, that is) is not a set ''theory'' or something along those lines, it's just a mindset. It didn't originate from a single point in time, it has existed for as long as there's been skeptics of a particular faith (who were sadly quite short-lived during earlier ages. Heretics didn't have an easy life to say the least).
Nevertheless, this is nothing but my silly opinion, and you know what they say about opinions...
I do hope that the two of you will leave this thread behind with a smile, or at least with indifference. Best of luck to the both of you!

P.S. Sorry if I came off a bit rude, I didn't mean to provoke or offend in any way.
diablo · 46-50, M
Brilliant, simply brilliant. I agree 100% with everything written above, including the apropos Minchin quote to close it out. Yet perhaps I am a bit biased because you began with DS9 and TNG references? Hmmm.... what I do know is that I look further to further exploring this issue with you.
RoboChloe · 26-30, F
@MalteseFalconPunch We don't talk about that... [i]thing[/i]. *shudder*
SW-User
Exposing religion was a common theme in the original Star Trek series; and there forwards.

And there's a better way to go about ending belief in God than insisting on physical evidence. This is only part of the process.

And we should remember that 'evolving into gods' is just foolish talk for the sake of creating new episodes.
fazer1k · 56-60, M
I have never been able to think of any rationale for believing in the existence of gods. If people weren't raised to believe in a god it would never cross their minds.
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