Which is most important, identity politics or economics?
For me both matter but the latter has the most impact. I'll read any long answers.
41-45, M
Top | Newest First | Oldest First
Cierzo · M
In my opinion, economics has become more important than identity politics since 19th century. Both classic liberalism and marxism go in this direction, seeing human being mainly as a 'homo economicus',
I think this pure materialistic view of human nature is a big mistake. Humans have a spiritual side that cannot be denied. So, the same way Christianity transformed the old Pagan deities and festivals into Christian saints and festivities, the idea of progress and perfectuon towards science and technology took the place of God. Dictatorship of proletariat on one side, and free trade and consumerism took the place of the Christian eternal life. And social and economical class (and in the last fifty years or so also race, gender, sexual orientation) took the place of family, profession, religious community and nation as our main reference identity groups
I reject both the purely economical approach and identity politics based on race, gender or sexual orientation.
I think this pure materialistic view of human nature is a big mistake. Humans have a spiritual side that cannot be denied. So, the same way Christianity transformed the old Pagan deities and festivals into Christian saints and festivities, the idea of progress and perfectuon towards science and technology took the place of God. Dictatorship of proletariat on one side, and free trade and consumerism took the place of the Christian eternal life. And social and economical class (and in the last fifty years or so also race, gender, sexual orientation) took the place of family, profession, religious community and nation as our main reference identity groups
I reject both the purely economical approach and identity politics based on race, gender or sexual orientation.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
CaptainCanadia · 41-45, M
I think that focusing entirely on one or the other is a mistake because at the end it's all politics viewed through different lenses. Despite being an avowed feminist and anti-racism, I feel that identity politics misses the forest for the trees. An economics focus tends to miss that our entire concept of economy is based on free market theories and ideology. It presents an inherently political idea as an apolitical science.
It's all integrated. Oppressed peoples are economically oppressed... and yet economies are influenced by cultural motives. Like, why are there black people in poverty in the US? The historical slavery that's at the root of it is both economic and cultural - you justify an economy through cultural ideas of racism.
Everyone needs their own view and analysis. I certainly look at economy and 'class' first, but it's all important.
It's all integrated. Oppressed peoples are economically oppressed... and yet economies are influenced by cultural motives. Like, why are there black people in poverty in the US? The historical slavery that's at the root of it is both economic and cultural - you justify an economy through cultural ideas of racism.
Everyone needs their own view and analysis. I certainly look at economy and 'class' first, but it's all important.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Excellent answer. I agree that they are integrated and would emphasise that cultural issues do primary stem from economic conditions. I think the liberal left had messed up by abandoning economics in recent decades, particularly in Britain and the US.
Are you an NDP supporter?
Are you an NDP supporter?
CaptainCanadia · 41-45, M
It's complicated. I vote for them but supporter would be strong - they've given up any kind of socialist roots to be left-leaning neoliberals and I'm too left wing for them. That said, I come from a family of hard NDP supporters and live in Alberta which is Canada's conservative heartland. They're now in power in Alberta (after a history of nothing but right wing rule), and it's fascinating to watch them sell out their ideals - while still doing some good stuff.
If you press me I'd identify as an anarcho-syndicalist, but tend to behave like a conventional social democrat. The NDP have social democrat roots, but they lost those a decade ago.
If you press me I'd identify as an anarcho-syndicalist, but tend to behave like a conventional social democrat. The NDP have social democrat roots, but they lost those a decade ago.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Our politics are very similar. I am a Labour member and on the left of the party. I am also something of a syndicalist at heart but I am campaigning for left social democracy as a more realistic mid term option.
kingofthenorth87 · 36-40, M
Economics of course, not the whole Identity politics horseshit stuff.
Get rid of the welfare state and people will quit bitching/making excuses and start pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps
Get rid of the welfare state and people will quit bitching/making excuses and start pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
You are a harsh man for such a troubled soul. I don't think that kind of Darwinism benefits many people and certainly not outsiders.
SW-User
Economics. Poor people are the most disadvantaged in society regardless of their race/gender/sexuality/hair colour/teeth
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
I would tend to agree but would add that working class minorities are even more disadvantaged.
carpediem · 61-69, M
Interesting question. Economics. Identity politics is designed to divide the country. Good economic policy serves everyone including working class.
SW-User
Economics.
JohnOinger · 41-45, M
Both