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whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
Dont get me started on the dumbing down of English for Americans. I am still shaking my head over "Aluminum" (Its Aluminium.. Look at the periodic table..)😷
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whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@bijouxbroussard Yes.. In Britain and Australia..
bijouxbroussard · F
@whowasthatmaskedman Were you originally from the UK and emigrated to Australia ?
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@bijouxbroussard Exactly. and went back for a while.😷
Doomflower · 36-40, M
I usually don't pronounce the R unless I'm feeling fancy.
American english has such a wide range it's a whole subject in and of itself with so many blurred and varied dialects.
American english has such a wide range it's a whole subject in and of itself with so many blurred and varied dialects.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
It is strange.
It's as if Americans find the middle syllables or even single letter of long words hard to enunciate, so they drop them. Then invent horrors that make the original word longer still, like "inspirational" ( = inspiring) and even "burglarise" (= burgle - and they'd spell it with a 'z').
No respect for etymology: a "pedophile" actually has an unhealthy craving for feet, not children; while, I was told by a science teacher, US geologists insisting changing the time called the Cainozoic, "Cenozoic" have actually reversed its meaning.
Also why do Americans adopting things or concepts invented in Britain using English words, change the names or technical terms? Is it to disguise the fact of being adopted? Lord Baden-Powell and his wife Olivia invented the Boy Scouts and the Girl Guides; the first words were dropped in the 1960s; but the females were never "Girl Scouts"!
Sometimes it's due to the original being changed into something totally different anyway: Baseball was originally Rounders, Ten-pin Bowling is a highly-mechanised, glittery version of Skittles (once, a.k.a. Nine Pins). While what the Americans call "Football" is nothing like Football. it is a rather gladiatorial version of Rugby Football which they don't play; so they invented the odd word "Soccer" (of what etymology?) for ordinary football!,
.
It works the other way, to be fair.
A lot of Britons think it clever to affect Americanisms simply for being American; but sometimes fail to understand them. Hence, for example, sometimes calling congestion on a motorway, "gridlock". Or using as metaphors, arcane colloquialisms from American sports, like "curved ball" (it wouldn't be a ball if it is not curved!). And slang they think are the proper terms, like "fracking" - coined by drilling-rig labourers unable to say "fracturing": too many syllables!
Whilst the British dialects and accents are so richly varied, that in some areas the differences are noticeable across only several tens of miles, and regional proper-noun pronunciations a study of their own. Spell "Aptwick" or "Sinjen-Steven" fully! (Respectively, a village in Yorkshire and a former politician's surname).
There is not even A "London" accent - there are subtly different native accents across Greater London, though you'd probably need be a Greater London native and resident to discern and identify them. I am not, so they all sound much the same to me. I think though I can just about discern between Southern Yorkshire and NW Yorkshire / Lancashire, accents!
It's as if Americans find the middle syllables or even single letter of long words hard to enunciate, so they drop them. Then invent horrors that make the original word longer still, like "inspirational" ( = inspiring) and even "burglarise" (= burgle - and they'd spell it with a 'z').
No respect for etymology: a "pedophile" actually has an unhealthy craving for feet, not children; while, I was told by a science teacher, US geologists insisting changing the time called the Cainozoic, "Cenozoic" have actually reversed its meaning.
Also why do Americans adopting things or concepts invented in Britain using English words, change the names or technical terms? Is it to disguise the fact of being adopted? Lord Baden-Powell and his wife Olivia invented the Boy Scouts and the Girl Guides; the first words were dropped in the 1960s; but the females were never "Girl Scouts"!
Sometimes it's due to the original being changed into something totally different anyway: Baseball was originally Rounders, Ten-pin Bowling is a highly-mechanised, glittery version of Skittles (once, a.k.a. Nine Pins). While what the Americans call "Football" is nothing like Football. it is a rather gladiatorial version of Rugby Football which they don't play; so they invented the odd word "Soccer" (of what etymology?) for ordinary football!,
.
It works the other way, to be fair.
A lot of Britons think it clever to affect Americanisms simply for being American; but sometimes fail to understand them. Hence, for example, sometimes calling congestion on a motorway, "gridlock". Or using as metaphors, arcane colloquialisms from American sports, like "curved ball" (it wouldn't be a ball if it is not curved!). And slang they think are the proper terms, like "fracking" - coined by drilling-rig labourers unable to say "fracturing": too many syllables!
Whilst the British dialects and accents are so richly varied, that in some areas the differences are noticeable across only several tens of miles, and regional proper-noun pronunciations a study of their own. Spell "Aptwick" or "Sinjen-Steven" fully! (Respectively, a village in Yorkshire and a former politician's surname).
There is not even A "London" accent - there are subtly different native accents across Greater London, though you'd probably need be a Greater London native and resident to discern and identify them. I am not, so they all sound much the same to me. I think though I can just about discern between Southern Yorkshire and NW Yorkshire / Lancashire, accents!
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@bijouxbroussard Oh, I don't deny that is so, probably for most languages.
I recall a former merchant-seaman telling me you have to be very careful with some South American Spanish words, because mispronouncing them makes them Very Rude. Those instances are probably rare, though.
I understand one of the most standardised languages across its own land is Polish; a result of the Poles clinging to their identity and language despite various invasions.
I recall a former merchant-seaman telling me you have to be very careful with some South American Spanish words, because mispronouncing them makes them Very Rude. Those instances are probably rare, though.
I understand one of the most standardised languages across its own land is Polish; a result of the Poles clinging to their identity and language despite various invasions.
bijouxbroussard · F
@ArishMell That makes sense. But in so many cases, it was the English-speakers, like the Spanish, who were the invaders. So whatever happened to the language after they left it in various parts of the world was inevitable. 😉
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@bijouxbroussard A good point!
summersong · F
If I’m speaking slowly and deliberately I will pronounce the r.
In everyday speech I do not.
In everyday speech I do not.
Rutterman · 46-50, M
I always pronounce the word as you do. It's not necessarily wrong, even if some hardcore grammarians disagree. Folks like that seem to think language--including the pronunciation of words--is stuck in the distant past and unchanging over time, when it clearly is not.
While "Feb-RU-ary" is still considered the standard pronunciation, most dictionaries recognize the pronunciation of February without the first "r" ("Feb-U-ary") as an acceptable variant.
https://www.thoughtco.com/correct-pronunciation-of-february-1691019
While "Feb-RU-ary" is still considered the standard pronunciation, most dictionaries recognize the pronunciation of February without the first "r" ("Feb-U-ary") as an acceptable variant.
https://www.thoughtco.com/correct-pronunciation-of-february-1691019
bijouxbroussard · F
@Rutterman Check out what some of our British friends have to say…😅
Rutterman · 46-50, M
@bijouxbroussard Read through the replies just now.
You've gotten a surprisingly robust discussion on the topic, which is cool. 👍
You've gotten a surprisingly robust discussion on the topic, which is cool. 👍
bijouxbroussard · F
@Rutterman Yes. Very interesting. 😆
Midnightoker1 · 61-69, M
My english is getting gooder and gooder...
TheSentinel · M
@Midnightoker1 I don't speak English, I speak American.
Sharon · F
@Midnightoker1 My english is the goodest! ;)
Midnightoker1 · 61-69, M
@Sharon :)
SW-User
I was trying to remember what example of this bugs me here in Canada. It is "arctic". The Arctic is a very large part of our land mass, but many people pronounce it "artic" without the first C. ~~
However, it turns out I shouldn't be annoyed; I just checked this word in the Oxford English Dictonary, and not only is "artic" a recognized pronunciation both in British and American English, but it was spelled for centuries without that first C.
So now I looked up "February" in the OED and same result! Both in British and American English, pronunciations without the first R are recognized; and in spelling, that R has come and gone over the centuries.
Probably people from countries like Nigeria where English does not have as long a local history are more likely to take the standard spelling seriously...!
However, it turns out I shouldn't be annoyed; I just checked this word in the Oxford English Dictonary, and not only is "artic" a recognized pronunciation both in British and American English, but it was spelled for centuries without that first C.
So now I looked up "February" in the OED and same result! Both in British and American English, pronunciations without the first R are recognized; and in spelling, that R has come and gone over the centuries.
Probably people from countries like Nigeria where English does not have as long a local history are more likely to take the standard spelling seriously...!
bijouxbroussard · F
@SW-User In Nigeria, English is second to various indigenous languages, so they tend to speak and write British English, I am told.
SW-User
@bijouxbroussard I have a lot of Nigerian students as it happens. Their English is certainly British-inflected but has its own idiosyncracies too!
SW-User
I say Febuary
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@SW-User But you get to say that because English is your second language. (And I get to say that because my wife is Scottish)😷
SW-User
@whowasthatmaskedman I'm English
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@SW-User No need to apologise...😷
I believe the pronunciation is now widely considered by linguists to be a matter of choice rather than correctness.
But I believe American English is gradually drifting further away from its British roots. There is ever increasing slang that becomes everyday idiom, and there are gradual shifts in the meanings of specific words, and in the way grammar is used. I notice in films that there are whole phases I don't understand, and some words are pronounced so weirdly that I can't even guess the meaning. I often wish that American films and TV serials had English subtitles.
But I believe American English is gradually drifting further away from its British roots. There is ever increasing slang that becomes everyday idiom, and there are gradual shifts in the meanings of specific words, and in the way grammar is used. I notice in films that there are whole phases I don't understand, and some words are pronounced so weirdly that I can't even guess the meaning. I often wish that American films and TV serials had English subtitles.
bijouxbroussard · F
@hartfire Lol, I struggle a little with a Scottish series I enjoy. What surprises me a bit here, is how the mainstream has incorporated some of the slang terms from the AA community. It hit me one night when I was watching the local weather report, and the white reporter lost his place and said, "My bad, I meant to say…" 😳
Slang used to be a real no-no in professional settings.
Slang used to be a real no-no in professional settings.
@bijouxbroussard Yeah. Another change seems to be the acceptance of clichés in journalism. Or maybe it's just the shrinking staff, fewer editors, and writers required to edit their own words.
DrWatson · 70-79, M
I was born in February, and perhaps that is why I am a stickler for pronouncing it Feb-ru-ary.
But I was taught in school that both pronunciations are correct.
But I was taught in school that both pronunciations are correct.
bijouxbroussard · F
@DrWatson Both ? That’s interesting.
DrWatson · 70-79, M
@bijouxbroussard I was not happy to learn that. My reaction was," Don't tread on my month!" 😆
SW-User
I (Canadian) always pronounce that R, but even I do not pronounce both D's in Wednesday :D
SW-User
@bijouxbroussard I think that is just one of those historical quirks of English spelling that no one pronounces. Or wait... is it an evil example of Christian suppression of the Pagan past even within the language? Should we return to calling it by its proper name, Woden's Day?
bijouxbroussard · F
@SW-User There’s a surprising number of English words, mostly proper nouns, like that: Gloucester, Worcester, Leicester, that are two-syllable words.
SW-User
@bijouxbroussard Old joke, a British chap is visiting Canada or the USA (it works either way) and talking with a local.
Local (Canadian or American): I've always wanted to travel to Britain! I'd like to go to Glou-ces-ter...
Brit: I take it you mean "Gloster" 🧐
Local: And I'd like to visit Wor-ces-ter, where they make the sauce...
Brit: Surely you mean "Wooster" 🧐
Local: And I've heard good things about Lei-ces-ter...
Brit: I suppose you mean "Lester" 🧐
Local: What about you? Where are you planning to visit on your vacation over here?
Brit: Our next destination is Niagara Falls.
Local: Where? 🤔
Brit: Niagara Falls! You know, the world-famous waterfall...
Local: Ohhh! You must mean "Niffles"! 😂
Local (Canadian or American): I've always wanted to travel to Britain! I'd like to go to Glou-ces-ter...
Brit: I take it you mean "Gloster" 🧐
Local: And I'd like to visit Wor-ces-ter, where they make the sauce...
Brit: Surely you mean "Wooster" 🧐
Local: And I've heard good things about Lei-ces-ter...
Brit: I suppose you mean "Lester" 🧐
Local: What about you? Where are you planning to visit on your vacation over here?
Brit: Our next destination is Niagara Falls.
Local: Where? 🤔
Brit: Niagara Falls! You know, the world-famous waterfall...
Local: Ohhh! You must mean "Niffles"! 😂
SW-User
most often without the 'r', but sometimes i make the extra effort to pronounce the 'r'. it depends who i'm talking to and how often i have to repeat the word.
Grateful4you · M
@bijouxbroussard I haven't studied much about English dialects. I do know what we consider Appalacian ( West Virginia) is a very old form of ancient English and the influence of other old southern english slang.
Since my gram greatly influenced my own speech I sometimes use German slang like "Ich Liebe diche" ( I love you") Mostly it was "Ach no Dadie" which usually turned into a "Yes Davey" cause my gram spoiled me something terrible.
Since my gram greatly influenced my own speech I sometimes use German slang like "Ich Liebe diche" ( I love you") Mostly it was "Ach no Dadie" which usually turned into a "Yes Davey" cause my gram spoiled me something terrible.
craig7 · 70-79, M
I pretty much just say "Feb-ree"in conversation - but "Feb-uary" is common here in Australia.When I was very young,I can recall a schoolteacher telling us that the first "r" shouldn't be dropped out of the pronunciation of "February" - but it's easier to skip over it without anyone misunderstanding what month you said. I also tend to say "lib-ree" - which admittedly is a somewhat lazy way of saying it.
DragonFruit · 61-69, M
I pronounce the 1st “R” in February, so I’d pronounce it Feh-brew-ary.
tindrummer · M
my tongue won't acknowledge or roll that r
Ontheroad · M
I've never pronounced that first "r".
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
I don't think anyone clearly enunciates the first r unless they are s p e a k i n g v e r y s l o w l y.
We don't pronounce that r in the UK.
Only Noah Webster ever thought that all the letters in an English word had to be pronounced separately.
We don't pronounce that r in the UK.
Only Noah Webster ever thought that all the letters in an English word had to be pronounced separately.
onewithshoes · 22-25, F
When I'm reading aloud, yes, otherwise probably not.
Anyway, I've been told that English buggered itself so badly during the Tudor period that there is no longer any possibility of any of us taking any honest pride in the way we speak.
Anyway, I've been told that English buggered itself so badly during the Tudor period that there is no longer any possibility of any of us taking any honest pride in the way we speak.
Piper · 61-69, F
I usually pronounce it Feb-U-ary, unless maybe I've just recently written it or something. Much like Wednesday which I also know perfectly well how to spell, but pronounce as Wends-day. 🥴
bijouxbroussard · F
@Piper That’s it exactly. I never had trouble spelling it, I just said it differently.
bookerdana · M
The United States and Great Britain are two countries separated by a common language. GB Shaw
I admit to saying Feb-u-ary until someone called my attention to it.....I also used to say LI-berry😀
I admit to saying Feb-u-ary until someone called my attention to it.....I also used to say LI-berry😀
Selah ·
There's no way my particular way of speaking will allow me to pronounce 2 r sounds in the middle of one word. That's too much.
bijouxbroussard · F
@Selah I heard that. 😄
Dino11 · M
How to pronounce former Duke Coach Mike Krzyzewski's name:
sh shef ski...nicknamed Coach K...lol
sh shef ski...nicknamed Coach K...lol
onewithshoes · 22-25, F
@Dino11
About like you sugest, but I would try pronounce the initial K, so kkrzy like cti in 'action'.
About like you sugest, but I would try pronounce the initial K, so kkrzy like cti in 'action'.
Dino11 · M
Always mispelled that one as a kid, so had to say 'bru' to get it right.
bijouxbroussard · F
@Dino11 That makes sense. I never misspelled it, there was just that disconnect in how I was saying it.
Dino11 · M
@bijouxbroussard Same with Wed nes day.
bijouxbroussard · F
@Dino11 That’s right. 😊
cycleman · 61-69, M
But if Library was spelt libruary. I bet your 1st 'r' will be silent too.
bijouxbroussard · F
@cycleman You’re probably right.
Dacrowman · 70-79, M
If I speak to an American I always speak slower 😜
bijouxbroussard · F
@Dacrowman Why is that ? 🤨
Dacrowman · 70-79, M
@bijouxbroussard because they normally have trouble understanding the queens (kings 🤔) english
bijouxbroussard · F
@Dacrowman And yet I never had a problem understanding the Queen. My cousin’s wife is Scottish, and when they came for a visit, I enjoyed watching her communicate with some of our older relatives with their thick regional accents. 😄
TheSirfurryanimalWales · 61-69, M
With the first r.
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
@bijouxbroussard But @TheSirfurryanimalWales is Welsh! You can't rely on the Welsh for English pronunciation.
I mean it sounds nice when they do it but it's not the English way!
:-)
I mean it sounds nice when they do it but it's not the English way!
:-)
TheSirfurryanimalWales · 61-69, M
@ninalanyon we roll our ‘r’s
The first r is not silent!
The first r is not silent!
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
@TheSirfurryanimalWales It is where I come from in South West England.
😛
I used to roll my rs too, but I've been away for so long that my accent has become rather neutral.
😛
I used to roll my rs too, but I've been away for so long that my accent has become rather neutral.
sciguy18 · M
I think it’s fairly common not to pronounce the first “r”.
Grateful4you · M
I don't pronounce the first "r" in February. I DO pronounce it in library. It bothers me when people pronounce photography as "Fur-tography. It also puzzled me when my black friend, (RIP Willy Taylor) pronounced "Ask" as "Axed"
Grateful4you · M
@bijouxbroussard "Without an actually axe" I better watch myself I guess. lol. Thanks for the comment.
bijouxbroussard · F
@Grateful4you 😉
DrWatson · 70-79, M
@bijouxbroussard Hmmmm.... are there more things about yourself you would like to share with us? 😯
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BeJeweled · F
I never pronounce the r either
uncalled4 · 56-60, M
I do say the whole word, but if I'm in a rush, I'll default to the Network Standard "Feb-oo-ary".
DDonde · 31-35, M
I do say Feb - brew - wary
well, maybe about 50/50 I say it both ways haha
well, maybe about 50/50 I say it both ways haha
SW-User
I guess I never enunciate the first r now that you mention it
This reminds me of a clip I wish I could find but I don't remember enough detail to even know what to search for ... I just remember some comedian (?) trying to say "February" in a French accent (maybe as Jacques Cousteau?) ... they made 2 or 3 attempts, then gave up and just said "early March ..."
This reminds me of a clip I wish I could find but I don't remember enough detail to even know what to search for ... I just remember some comedian (?) trying to say "February" in a French accent (maybe as Jacques Cousteau?) ... they made 2 or 3 attempts, then gave up and just said "early March ..."