I Am Fascinated By Science, Religion, and Philosophy
Let's discuss evolution. Is knowledge of the origins of life necessary for the study of evolution? Can evolution be disproved?
70-79, M
Top | Newest First | Oldest First
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
View 285 more replies »
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@newjaninev2 As I said before, I'm not a big fan but would probably watch it just for the superstitious behaviours. Even down different numbers of ball bounces between 1st and 2nd serves. I wonder if the players are aware of the little rituals as opposed to their more conscious ones.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Bushranger Yes, if Andy Murray has just won a point, he has to have the same ball back before he serves again.
Rafa arranges his drink bottles in a certain order, and uses them in a certain order.
When changing ends, or returning to his seat, he never walks on the white lines.
Before serving, he touches his face and his ear in a set pattern
Gosh, perhaps there are enough god-appeasing rituals out there on Centre Court to start a tennis religion??
Rafa arranges his drink bottles in a certain order, and uses them in a certain order.
When changing ends, or returning to his seat, he never walks on the white lines.
Before serving, he touches his face and his ear in a set pattern
Gosh, perhaps there are enough god-appeasing rituals out there on Centre Court to start a tennis religion??
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@newjaninev2 The church of the overstrung racquet maybe? LOL.
I've noticed Rafa's face and ear touching thing. That's one that I'd love to know if he's aware of doing it.
I've noticed Rafa's face and ear touching thing. That's one that I'd love to know if he's aware of doing it.
Bushranger · 70-79, M
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@hippyjoe1955 Sorry, but I really do have to come back to this. You said:
[quote]In the mean time Christianity teaches that there is no colour or gender or station in life since all are equal in the eyes of God. No scientism adherent could ever say that because it goes against the 'evidence'.[/quote]
Christianity may well teach that, however, its adherents certainly don't always follow that teaching. It may be true that someone who follows science blindly, a follower of scientism as you like to put it, may try to use science to confirm their beliefs. The use of so called social Darwinism is a classic example, but is not considered to be a valid scientific field. On the contrary, the field of genetics has helped to dispel the myth of the "inferior races". Seems there is much less genetic diversion between so called racial groups than was first believed.
[quote]In the mean time Christianity teaches that there is no colour or gender or station in life since all are equal in the eyes of God. No scientism adherent could ever say that because it goes against the 'evidence'.[/quote]
Christianity may well teach that, however, its adherents certainly don't always follow that teaching. It may be true that someone who follows science blindly, a follower of scientism as you like to put it, may try to use science to confirm their beliefs. The use of so called social Darwinism is a classic example, but is not considered to be a valid scientific field. On the contrary, the field of genetics has helped to dispel the myth of the "inferior races". Seems there is much less genetic diversion between so called racial groups than was first believed.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Bushranger In fact, genetics allows us to dispense entirely with the myth of 'races'.
There's more genetic diversity within any given group of humans than there is between any two groups.
There's more genetic diversity within any given group of humans than there is between any two groups.
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@newjaninev2 Yep, one big melting pot of seething genetic material 🤣
CopperCicada · M
I'm trained as a scientist-- physics, not biology.
I've never really understood the angst and agony over evolution. In physics everything can be looked at as minimization-maximization problems. What trajectory does an object take? the one with least action. What direction does the thermodynamics of a system take? the one with the maximum entropy.
"evolution" really doesn't need to have a spooky or exotic connotation. The point is that genotypes are "naturally selected" by the survivability of the phenotypes they produce. It's another optimization problem like the ones we find in physics.
Put a bunch of organisms in a box called an environment, and they'll either thrive or die off. The ones that survive will carry their genes with them and give them to the next generation. Do this in the face of genetic mutations and new phenotypes manifesting because of changes in environment and all sorts of interesting things happen. Beings "evolve".
But there's no reason to have to pin down the origins of life. Just like there's no reason to have to pin down the origins of the universe for physics to work.
I've never really understood the angst and agony over evolution. In physics everything can be looked at as minimization-maximization problems. What trajectory does an object take? the one with least action. What direction does the thermodynamics of a system take? the one with the maximum entropy.
"evolution" really doesn't need to have a spooky or exotic connotation. The point is that genotypes are "naturally selected" by the survivability of the phenotypes they produce. It's another optimization problem like the ones we find in physics.
Put a bunch of organisms in a box called an environment, and they'll either thrive or die off. The ones that survive will carry their genes with them and give them to the next generation. Do this in the face of genetic mutations and new phenotypes manifesting because of changes in environment and all sorts of interesting things happen. Beings "evolve".
But there's no reason to have to pin down the origins of life. Just like there's no reason to have to pin down the origins of the universe for physics to work.
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@CopperCicada Their method of gaining genetic diversity is by passing block of DNA to each other. Imagine that combined with sexual reproduction. Damn, they'd take over the world lol.
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@CopperCicada I wonder if it would be possible to do a computer simulation on this. Would need some pretty hefty processing power, though. And imagine the number of variables and interactions that would have to be taken into account. On second thoughts, maybe not lol.
Alabamian · 26-30, F
@CopperCicada what about Alabamians and Tennesseans they seem to look different in different states, does evolution have something to do about it?
Northwest · M
Figuring out the origin of life, is the ultimate goal of science.
It's like having an imaginary summit, and multiple teams are going about reaching it, using various routes and methods. This is what drives advances in each branch of science.
This applies to Evolution as well. Perhaps evolution could have been dismissed in the past, but since DNA, that's no longer a possibility.
It's like having an imaginary summit, and multiple teams are going about reaching it, using various routes and methods. This is what drives advances in each branch of science.
This applies to Evolution as well. Perhaps evolution could have been dismissed in the past, but since DNA, that's no longer a possibility.
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@CopperCicada Damn you, man. You made me think 😂 You are quite right, though. Unless one believes that all life was created in it's current form, then evolution has to be a given. I think this follows logically from your basic premise.
In regards to identity; is it the result of evolution? One would assume so. Also, self-awareness may need some redefinition in light of studies of [quote]Pan paniscus[/quote]. If it can be proved that other animals have a sense of identity, what does this prove?
In regards to identity; is it the result of evolution? One would assume so. Also, self-awareness may need some redefinition in light of studies of [quote]Pan paniscus[/quote]. If it can be proved that other animals have a sense of identity, what does this prove?
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@PoetryNEmotion But it can be fun lol.
Alabamian · 26-30, F
@Bushranger Are Alabamians from a separate lineage from the rest of humanity did they create life in earth from a single cell organism in water?
SW-User
Knowledge of the origin is not required, no. I don't think how you can disprove evolution on the information available.
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@hippyjoe1955 And I have learnt something today. I've learnt that Christians can be very unchristian in their behaviour and attitudes.
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@hippyjoe1955 Nonsense. If it was a lightning bolt that created the first replicating molecule, then it was a very simple one that would have had very limited interaction with its environment. The complexity simply could not have started with the first organism.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Bushranger telling the truth is unChristian? I didn't know that.
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
There is no need to know how anything started to study how it changes over time. I can see what something looks like today and tomorrow I can see what it looks like then and compare it with how it looks today. I don't need to know what it looked like yesterday.
All the available evidence supports the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection. Nobody has yet postulated a hypothesis that better explains the evidence.
All the available evidence supports the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection. Nobody has yet postulated a hypothesis that better explains the evidence.
Alabamian · 26-30, F
Did humans come from different origins or same ancestors?
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@newjaninev2 I think you will find that the Welsh language has made a significant comeback. And while I agree with hippyjoe that there was an attempt to suppress the language, its use continued as it also did in Ireland and Scotland. I may be wrong, but I seem to recall reading that the first non English language locally produced television show was in Welsh. Very proud of that side of my heritage.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Bushranger My grandmother grew up speaking Welsh and after she moved to Canada she continued to speak Welsh with my Grandfather. After Grandfather died a man came from Wales and learned about my Grandmother. They got together and the man began the conversation in Welsh. After a few moments my Grandmother told him, "You'll have to speak English, I can't understand a word you are saying".
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@hippyjoe1955 Sounds similar to a couple of people I've known. One was German and the other Dutch. They both came to Australia at reasonably young ages and spoke their mother tongues with their families. When they went to their countries of origin after many years away, the languages had changed that much they had difficulty understanding. It's amazing how things change.
Bushranger · 70-79, M
Alabamian · 26-30, F
@newjaninev2 people near them
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
Evolution can be shown to have holes in the Darwinian construct. ... but is of interest.
But, faith is available to fill in the gaps.
But, faith is available to fill in the gaps.
@Bushranger look at core matching in sedimentary and limestone stratigraphy ... There are classes and books on this.
The geologists I worked with just limited evolution theory to just within rock periods ... not across periods.
Thus, for example, within a 25 million year period ... fossils show evolution ... but not with the 50 million year periods before and after.
The geologists I worked with just limited evolution theory to just within rock periods ... not across periods.
Thus, for example, within a 25 million year period ... fossils show evolution ... but not with the 50 million year periods before and after.
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@questionWeaver Curious. Will definitely look into it.
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
ButterFly2023 · 18-21, M
monte3 · 70-79, M
Didn’t we have this same thread a few days ago?