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I Am Fascinated By Science, Religion, and Philosophy

Here's an interesting thought. We associate Christianity with the West. They've basque in it's glory and transformed it as a foundation or basis of their daily lives. It has become a dynamic element in the history of the West.

This concept of Christianity is borrowed from the Middle East, where it first came into existence. Jesus was a Middle Eastern man, born and bred in the Middle East. Even the God that Christians believe and pray to - is a God of the Middle East. He chose to reveal himself and his miraculous mighty power and miracles "only" to people of the Middle East.

If Christians can believe and taken in concept and foundation of beliefs of the East. Why are they hostile to the populace of beleaguered countries of the East when they seek refuge. The father of Abrahamic religion was not a White European man, he was an inhabitant and native of the East.

When I explain this concept to my parents, they're often bewildered and hush me up. I'm not religious but the behaviour of some religious people fascinate me.

Hey, we will take your God, adopt his teachings and apply his philosophy to make us holier than thou Middle East. But we refuse to accept you and your way of life.

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Bushranger · 70-79, M

Historically, wasn't it Christians who first persecuted Muslims and Jews? It amasses me that 3 religions that are based on the same God can be so hostile towards each other. The western practices of Christianity are slightly different to the eastern versions. Humans seem to have problems with people who are different. We see ourselves and our culture as being superior to others, making it easier to denigrate beliefs and cultures.

As an atheist with Buddhist tendencies, it's interesting for me to observe the way that people from the Middle East are perceived and treated in so-called enlightened countries such as Australia (I won't talk of countries other than my own, because i am not in a position to observe the attitudes of average people). Unfortunately, anyone who looks Middle Eastern is considered to be a Muslim and to not "... have the same beliefs as we have." (an actual quote from a person I know). Yes, there is fear of the "other", the evil demon who is trying to take over our country and way of life. It's unfortunate that this fear can be used to pass new laws that reduce the freedoms of all citizens.

Anyway, enough of my raving. I would like to finish by thanking Random1Thoughts for creating such an interesting topic.

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Speedyman · 70-79, M

The Muslims and Jews belueve in the same Abrahamic God but Muslims believe that the line of blessing continued through Ishmael not Isaac. My source? An educated Immam I know. Christians of course belueve that the promises given to Abraham were fulfilled in the Messiah, Jesus, which Jews and Muslims do not. So to try and learn the three religions together is futile . Christians see Jesus as the fulfilment of the Jewish faith. @Bushranger

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@Speedyman Thanks for that. I will admit that I wasn't aware of Ishmael prior to this. They are all similar roots, however.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@Speedyman Sorry to disillusion you but the rabbinical council recognizes that Christians worship the same God as Jews. Both Christians and Jews recognize that muslims do not worship the same god. 'the god' is not a name of Yahweh.

Abstraction · 61-69, M

I hear you, but most of the christians I know are incredibly sympathetic to people of the middle east. They reach out in practical ways (not to convert) to help immigrants, muslim or whatever. They are intelligent, kind and human.

I'm a little horrified that the conservative, fundamentalist version of christianity that grew out of the piety movement in the US (where personal piety is more important than the 'weightier matters of the law' like justice and mercy) - that [i]this [/i]group have come to represent christianity for so many people. I find them often narrow and judgemental, that they despise the poor and are racist... they do everything Jesus criticised in religious people of his day.

People therefore - through confirmation bias - often re-interpret history to forget the beautiful aspects of what christianity brought to European civilisation. I could write a long list, but people who hate christianity you probably wouldn't think of three things. Yes, it's a mixed list, I see both sides.

I've been to Ramallah and the West Bank and other muslim communities in many different countries, by the way. I've sat and listened to adults and children and learnt a lot from them.

Random1Thoughts · F

@Abstraction
My parents are Christians, I was brought up in Christian doctrines and beliefs. I don't dislike Christians but vast majority of fundamentalists from Christian communities will bury certain elements of their beliefs to fit their narratives.

Like yourself, I have traveled to many countries. I spend time in most with natives and hear their perspectives and beliefs.

Perhaps we hear of the negative yet forget the good Christians out there supporting refugees and help built developing countries.

CopperCicada · M

I was raised in part by Arab Christians. Syriac rite and Maronite Catholics. And among my friends have been other Eastern rite Catholics.

What you say rings true. There is an anti-Eastern bigotry in Christianity. At least in my experience in America. Protestantism evolved in central and western Europe, and America has its own developments. Catholicism is dominated by Rome and Roman rite is the presumed form.

If you're an Eastern rite Catholic you're basically told to screw off by everyone on the block. Which is really ironic given the role of those faith traditions in early Christianity.

Random1Thoughts · F

@CopperCicada
Of course there's anti Eastern bigotry. However, people are not individualistic enough to see the bigger picture.

Vast majority of us love to sit idly by and accept whatever is fed to us because it's comfortable. People need to use their brain to think.

CopperCicada · M

@Random1Thoughts Yea. I hear ya. I've see it first hand.

This message was deleted by its author.

SoFine · 46-50, F

You generalize with your thinking on this subject.

Most people that live in what you call the WEST, very few do practice a religion. The rate of West people going regular to a church of any sector are in the decline. It ain't cool to go to or follow a religion.
Look up the numbers, they are few. More follow the religion of LOOK AT ME!!! Facebook is full of the church LOOK AT ME, with my pouted lips.

The Facts

1. They all follow the same God.

The difference is in the rituals and practice. The Jewish, Christian and Muslim, use the Old Testament. The New Testament is only Christian.

They all teach love, to be kind, to be humble. If they deviate from teaching love, then they don't constitute the reason for their existence.

Man has EGO, when man uses his Ego, then love is not taught. The EGO of man has turned us against each other, we argue and disagree.

So do you use your EGO to stand out as if you know better than those around you.

If you argue and disagree allot, then your EGO rules you.

To be love or not.

Random1Thoughts · F

@SoFine
Everything relative to The New Testament is directly linked to the old testament. We can't dismiss it because it doesn't fit our narratives.

This is not about ego, it's a healthy discussion. In order to reach a stage of enlightenment, we must progressively criticise, analyse everything critically. No opinion should be shut down because it doesn't fit narratives of the majority.

SatanBurger · 36-40, F

I wrote about that awhile back and used my theory that mankind made God in their image because even though it's all variations of the same thing, God's skin color and beliefs (slightly) differ depending on culture. There's no way Jesus would have been a European white man but interestingly enough I had several angry religious people tell me that Jesus would have been an Middle Eastern European white guy with luscious blonde locks, blue eyes, sparkling white teeth, smooth skin and really tall because archaeological evidence of other people from the time period doesn't matter.

So he would have been European whether it's historically accurate or not, God dang nabbit *angry fist* 😆

Random1Thoughts · F

@SatanBurger
I've had discussion with people telling me that blonde, blue eyes with white skin was common in that period.

Jesus was a brown skin man, just like the skin colour of the natives from that area. How people misconstrue facts to fit their narratives is absurd.

When I watch movies where Jesus and his blond locks and blue eyes are beaming. I laugh my ass off.

SatanBurger · 36-40, F

@Random1Thoughts Fun fact, there was almost no white people in the bible until the New Testament which was during Roman times. I'm sorry but I really feel like the New Testament doesn't count. I don't know how much I believe biblical history anyways but I've heard through other people that Constantine revised a lot in the bible including Jesus's place of execution and birth 😆

I think there seems to be an underlying racial issue there. I think for some people it's not a conscious effort but I'm fairly convinced that white Jesus is just a by product of slavery times. God was the primary excuse for everything back then, most people viewed God as a white European man back then also.

https://medium.com/embrace-race/is-god-racist-or-is-it-my-church-69951cb0533d

On a lighter note, here's a description that made me giggle inappropriately.

I don't really know the site it comes from but found it fascinating since I'm on the subject:

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm

[quote]Fortunately, however, Biblical scholar Robert Eisler in a classic 1931 study of Josephus’ Testimony was able to reconstruct the unaltered testimony based on a newly-discovered Old Russian translation that preserved the original Greek text. According to Eisler’s reconstruction, the oldest non-Biblical description of Jesus read as follows:

“At that time also there appeared a certain man of magic power … if it be meet to call him a man, [whose name is Jesus], whom [certain] Greeks call a son of [a] God, but his disciples [call] the true prophet … he was a man of simple appearance, mature age, black-skinned (melagchrous), short growth, three cubits tall, hunchbacked, prognathous (lit. ‘with a long face’ [macroprosopos]), a long nose, eyebrows meeting above the nose … with scanty [curly] hair, but having a line in the middle of the head after the fashion of the Nazaraeans, with an undeveloped beard.”

This short, black-skinned, mature, hunchbacked Jesus with a unibrow, short curly hair and undeveloped beard bears no resemblance to the Jesus Christ taken for granted today by most of the Christian world: the tall, long haired, long bearded, white-skinned and blue eyed Son of God. Yet, this earliest textual record matches well the earliest iconographic evidence.

The earliest visual depiction of Jesus is a painting found in 1921 on a wall of the baptismal chamber of the house-church at Dura Europos, Syria and dated [big]around 235 A.D. The Jesus that is “Healing the Paralytic Man” (Mark 2:1-12) is short and dark-skinned with a small curly afro - see below.[/big][/quote]

Random1Thoughts · F

@SatanBurger
This is spot on and well said!

Speedyman · 70-79, M

You failed to mention that many of the countries in the east you talk about are extremely hostile to Christianity and Christians in them are regarded the second-class citizens at best and persecuted at worst. It is statistically reckoned 80% of religious persecution is directed at Christians, much of in countries you mention. Of course Christianity is in eastern religion as anyone with any intelligence will tell you but it does seem though many of the countries it was founded in are now persecuting Christians, something you don't mention.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

Your point is? Other than you sound bit racist I don't see the point of what you wrote. If the west had adopted Confucianism would you be saying the same about east asians?

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hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@CopperCicada Good friends of mine married to each other. Once was RC the other was Presbyterian. He called her a dogan and she called him a prottie. The name calling did not change their love for each other.

CopperCicada · M

@hippyjoe1955 different people. different experiences.

es muss schoen, alles zu wissen!

be well.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@CopperCicada Try not to take offence so often and you won't be offended so often.

alan20 · M

Very true. Andalucia under a branch of Islam developed into quite a cultured and tolerant place : the Alhambra in Granada, Cordoba and all the rest. Christians and Jews were tolerated. The Christians invaded, drove out the Moors and Jews, vandalised much of the Islamic art and eventually got round to the Inquisition. You'll not be surprised to hear I'm an atheist.

CopperCicada · M

@alan20 that's an inconvenient truth that there. the coexistence of sephardic jews under moorish influence-- but their exile under christians.

SW-User

I appreciate your thoughts, but frankly it's not a relevant question. First, I'm not sure the West hasn't been very accommodating to people from the Middle East. Secondly, God intended the Christian message to spread throughout the world.

Random1Thoughts · F

It was an intended direct question about documented historical behaviour of large percentage of people in the West. It always fascinates me how short sighted we are.
@SW-User

Abstraction · 61-69, M

Yes, I agree with you.

I don't think to accept christianity we have to embrace middle-eastern culture. But if you don't embrace middle-eastern people, then we haven't understood christianity at all.

Random1Thoughts · F

@Abstraction
Exactly! Thank you, that's exactly where I was going with this post.

Universeoflove · 51-55, M

It's the truth. It interesting how humans will deny truth.

Random1Thoughts · F

Truth expose hypocrisy and ignorance. @Universeoflove

Universeoflove · 51-55, M

@Random1Thoughts yes but it surprises me how most people simply don't want to know the truth about anything. It's like they think that it's not important.

Random1Thoughts · F

They know but choose to ignore. @Universeoflove

jennypenny · 70-79, F

Sorry but the emphasis is wrong here. You are right in saying Christianity is of Middle East origin but the west didn't 'borrow' it as Jesus meant it to be a worldwide faith when he told his disciples to go into the whole world and preach the good news

NodandaWink · 51-55, M

That's a very naarrow view of cause and effect thinking, it does not address all the socio-economic influences of the last 2000 years, but it's apt as far as it goes.

Random1Thoughts · F

@NodandaWink
Its a factual statement of the birth of Christianity.

mrmoose · 70-79, M

and jesus was a jew

Random1Thoughts · F

@mrmoose
Jews are from the Middle East. Where he was born and came into existence is situated in the Middle East.

mrmoose · 70-79, M

@Random1Thoughts of course, common knowledge

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