5 weeks ago Godspeed63 started another threat on this forum with the provocative name: [b]"Science Really Does Point To God"[/b]. Now the evidence of that claim is seriously under investigation. So far... to say it's "inconclusive" is a really friendly way of saying that there isn't much there.
Speedyman got the "Best Answer" which supposedly is this one:
[quote]Simply by accepting the scientific method you are accepting a rational universe therefore a rational mind behind it. Unless you are one of those irrational people who believes blind chance creates rationality[/quote]
It generated over 770 replies (so far). The side of people that are closely related to a religious mindset, spearheaded by: Godspeed63, Speedyman and Hippyjoe1955 contributed quite a lot.
Now some of the replies (on both sides) never really lead to much progress. It's more name calling from both sides and people feeling attacked in their believes. Which you can kinda expect from discussions like this. But I think if people go and read the entire thing, they will come fairly close to the summary I give in reply 770 on how religious people defend themselves. (read up here: https://similarworlds.com/19-Spirituality-Religion/2675808-Science-Really-Does-Point-To-God-No-Question-About?rid=31217251)
Annyway, this is post 770, or how you defend a dogmatic position against scientific data (or how you rationalise things that don't coop with your religious-dataset):
[b]1.[/b] The only source that matter, is the bible. If something goes against the bible. It has to be wrong.
[b]2.[/b] Say something, but don't state your source. If they don't accept your "truth" then they are asses for being sceptical. [i](The burden of proof is for those that don't agree with you. That's how the inquisition did it, and it worked for them. Why change a working system?)[/i]
[b]3.[/b] If you can't make your point in a rational way, and back it up with facts, apply terror. They either accept what you tell them, or let them know that they are going to burn in hell for not accepting your truth. [i](Tell them to "have a nice flame out", it's the Christian thing to do)[/i]
[b]4.[/b] Gods' natural force to create things, isn't magic. It's Godly.
[b]5.[/b] If the probability of something happening is really small. Then just regard it as being "irrational" to believe it might happen. The probability of it happening is just too small, so it just can't happen. Therefore God needed to have something to do with it. Because that's way more rational then believing in small probabilities.
[b]6.[/b] If people still don't believe you, then tell them they are ignorant and are unable to understand. Always seek the moral high-ground. Make your opponent look inferior... even if they quote the bible. People that look idiotic have no claim on the truth, only people that look virtuous and smart can claim to know things.
[b]7.[/b] If someone does make a point that is literally in the bible. Make sure to tell them that only "real" believers can interpretate the bible. Never EVER define "real", just make sure they know that you are one of the "real" ones. Because atheists are able to read scientific papers, but the bible just isn't for them.
[b]8.[/b] If someone uses science to debunk the bible, look for a few missteps in science. Then tell everyone that science is wrong because some scientists make mistakes. The Nirvana fallacy is your friend. Apply the same reasoning the agnostic atheists do. If they can use the nirvana fallacy to debunk the basic dataset of a religion, then why can't we? Never EVER agree that science and religion are not the same thing. Never EVER agree that science has a human characteristic. Extrapolate the "believe" in science to a "religious believe". Science is a religion and should be treated just like our religion is treated. Science is a cult! Wreck 'm!
[b]9.[/b] Only use scientific studies if they work in your favor. Be "sceptical" about all the others [i](apply rule 8 )[/i]. When they ask you if you are knowledgeble about the "toppic" or "field" you are quoting a studie off, always respond with: "yes" or "I have a really smart friend that explained it to me" [i](preferably a "scientific" friend, that doesn't belong to the science cult and says the same thing we do. Make sure to mention your friend is really smart. If your friend doesn't study the field (s)he criticises, make sure to mention that doesn't matter because (s)he is so smart. Anekdotal evidence works for us, because we know what is smart and others don't. - apply rule 6 )[/i].
[b]10.[/b] Never ever loose faith in what you believe, because else we'll burn in hell too. God doesn't apply terror, He loves us because we believe in Him and makes us burn if we are sceptical of Him. [i](that's just how love works... proof us wrong 🤷♂️)[/i]
[i](oh yeah, the text in the image... those are literal quotes from the threat. I'm not making this up.)[/i]
@Kwek00 [quote]I Am An Agnostic Atheist 5 weeks ago Godspeed63 started another threat on this forum with the provocative name:"Science Really Does Point To God". Now the evidence of that claim is seriously under investigation. So far... to say it's "inconclusive" is a really friendly way of saying that there isn't much there. It generated over 770 replies (so far). The side of people that are closely related to a religious mindset, spearheaded by: Godspeed63, Speedyman and Hippyjoe1955 contributed quite a lot.[/quote]
"Threat" is hardly the case. It almost sounds like you're jealous of the man and the number of replies under his post. Nobody forces anybody to read his posts. Just like any other subject in this forum, if people don't like it, they don't have to read it and can simply move on and ignore it or block the person. That's simple enough, but to go on and on about someone's post, who has every right to post anything they wish on this site, sounds more like it's your problem, than anyone else's, since you are as you claim, an agnostic atheist. Don't forget that is what this forum is for, discussion. Why you go out of your way to dis Godspeed63 or anyone else for that matter, speaks volumes more about [b]your[/b] character, than his.
@LadyGrace In instant even... without any outside force. And because you can't explain it... like always with people that fall in this trap => thus God.
Can't explain something => God is here to help you out to make sense of the complexity. No more work is needed.
[quote]If her coming back to life, alone, in an instant because of our prayers, is not "suitable" to to you, nothing would be.[/quote]
Sounds like a really strong story. Man, something that is this "miraculous" should have been picked up by someone. Even the medical field could study and figure things out. But I guess... all of that didn't happen.
[quote] Don't you even recognize who made you?[/quote]
You mean mom and dad having intercourse? And the spermcell penetrating the egg and all that?
[quote]You really want to believe something as fictitious as matter coming together and all the sudden creating this beautiful creation and human beings?[/quote]
Reality really doesn't care about what I want to believe. It just is. What people want to believe that's the fantasy part that I'm agitating against. It's the thing people apperently need to feel comfy... but I rather just know the truth.
[quote]You're a lie for one reason and that's because God made you and you have a living soul that one day will cross over into eternity and you don't even know where it's going or care[/quote]
Just proof it... Just make an actual case. People do it all the time. let other people study your argument, and if it's deemed valid, I'll be happy to adopt it. Untill that day comes... I rather don't attach myself to a believe system that doesn't have a lot going for it in the evidence department.
@Kwek00 [quote]They mean nothing, because you need to keep protecting all the believe you have. What ever you do, don't challenge yourself okay. Just be lazy, ignorance is bliss they tell me.[/quote]
It seems to em that you're the one who's ignorant here, Kwek. We can't add to what God has already done. He's proven Himself to mankind over and over and over and over through His Word and His work. You nonacceptance does not make that void. You can't change what God has already established as Truth before the foundations of the earth.
@whowasthatmaskedman @Kwek00 [quote]No getting through to some people. I bet you think John Wayne was real too.[/quote]
Why not? Didn't you know he was real? He got saved before he died and is with Jesus right now in paradise. You can't hurt him anymore. Now, tell me, what is your point?
@GodSpeed63 The point is you have not and cannot prove he in real. The only evidence all around us is the chaos, selfishness and cruelty of man and an uncaring universe. I want to see god in a line up.. Fingerprints. DNA..😷
@NativeOregonian I'd have to look it up to be sure, but it was a refute to the claim scientific method proves a 'god'. What followed was entertaining at least.
I have seen enough of this sort of thing that I no longer participate in such threads - it is an exercise in futility. I recognize the text in the top bubble in the above image - I can tell who posted it. "Do some research" is his typical response. He never reveals his "sources." Such a jerk.
@Kwek00 Oh baloney, they [u]are[/u] singled out! Christians can take [b]constructive[/b] criticism just fine, but what you do and others like you, is not just criticism. It's singling out Christians for bashing and bullying, just because they can. Still not cool. You are always playing the victim card and it's pretty sickening and old. Get a life.
@Kwek00 [quote]But the real devoted Christians, can't handle criticism. And for good reason... the reason being, that they have nothing real to base their faith on. That's why it's a faith to begin with, it has little to nothing going for it and people just believe. So when people pick away all the flawed arguments that they are trying to make... espescially when they are on the fruitless crusade to base their faith in reality, it just becomes extremely embaressing.[/quote]
I rest my case. Still criticizing Christians. Real nice. You really don't have a clue in what you're talking about. The only thing embarrassing is your attempt at bullying, and lack of knowledge about Christians, God, and the Bible.
@LadyGrace [quote]@Kwek00 Oh baloney, they are singled out! Christians can take constructive criticism just fine, but what you do and others like you, is not just criticism.[/quote]
No, that segment of the christian poppulation that I'm talking about. The real devoted types... no they can't take critique at all. That's why they ask people that criticize them to move along instead of interacting with their complaints. People that criticize those christians get the advice to block them, so that the christian doesn't have to deal with the stress of having criticisism at their door. Like you are doing right now.
The victim card? What am I a victim off exactly? Where does my victim complex come into play in this conversation? I'm not asking you to shut up or anything, that's your advice not mine.
You rest your case by proving mine? Thanks LG, good job! Oh... where is the counter to what I said? Where do I need to look for this faith that is a logical conclusion from evidence found in the real world?
I also remember the post. Don't let them trigger you into exposing them by their mind set. Be more concerned about remaining at the level of agnostic atheist. Progress beyond!
1. Like what you are saying in the first part? If I understand you correctly there is a "duty" or "responsibility" which have to do during life? And we can't wait to find out if we discover reasons to carry out our assigned duty? Is that correct?
2. I absolutely have no idea what point your are trying to make with the second one. Please elaborate.
3. What are your sources on those ideas? Because it would be nice to know where they came from.
