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Why be Kind?

It appears to be counter intuitive to extend kindness selflessly, as selfishness, or at least pursuit of self interest is seen as rational. So why be kind?
Miram · 31-35, F
I will only approach it from Sankhya philosophy , Hinduism, since that's my current focus.

I think they state kindness should not be performed with doership because it is believed that when we mean kindness as an action it requires someone being kind to another person. So someone at a higher position helping someone needy. (lot like Nietzsche's view).

But that position is an illusion according to Sankhya because the one being kind had no say over being at that position. Kindness is a permitted action, not one done with will. He does it because he is able to.

It is like taking some soil from one part of the world and depositing it elsewhere, because the agents involved were not individuals but forms only.

Also the feelings of doership and having been kind to someone is not useful to a seeker who is on a path to become one with the world. He does but not as the illusory self but as an agent run by the world. Instead of doing an act of kindness, so one could exist in compassion which almost literally means feeling for them as you would feel for yourself if you chose to, in terms of pain and joy. The difference in the two points of view is not very solid. It is the difference like one in being in love compared to doing love as an action. In the first case you just give in and flow with love, in the second case there will be confusion and stress intermittently.

Flowing is free but doing causes friction. Also when we do, our attachment with the illusory self becomes stronger. We understand this self as one who does and one to whom something is done. The one that judges the rest of nature based on security and utility and the one judged by the rest for the same.

The yogi is in path of giving away this self ,and then even though he/she is in a dynamic state, being an agent of transfer for the universe, he is neither in the giving end nor in the receiving.

In practical words it means that the action of serving someone in distress be done only and only with them in mind and not because we think it is good that we do so. The thought about self is unnecessary and when the self is not brought up at all, the doership is not obtained and it is the performance of an agent and not an individual.

So even if the help wasn't accepted or the effort brought no results, there is nothing to be sad about. That's the strength of the approach as opposed to self-interest. You try again taking into account your restrictions. Like a wildfire which burns a forest, it is the most passionate action you will see, but to do so is only the nature of the fire, not its plan or choice. Same is supposed to be the action performed by yogi.

First the yogi purifies her/his nature and then flows with it. Purification is achieved by dissolving self and then referring to Dharma, that is what is doable according to this purified nature for[b] harmonious living[/b].


What I understood is that to Sankhya, self is illusion and the latter is suffering unless by accident. If there is no self, nothing to be selfish of. When we are not selfless we are in the past and future, thinking about self preservation. We lose the [b]peace and the present[/b].
[To be edited later.]
SW-User
Because you have to live with yourself in the end. If it makes you feel like a good person to be kind, then if only for that one reason, it is the right thing to do. Even if most all people in the world become selfish. and totally unkind, if there are a few remaining that are genuinely kind, have empathy for others and are against harming others, there is still hope for mankind. If there were to be absolutely no more kind people in the world ,there would be no more hope for humanity. So, as I tell my teens, be kind, even when no one else is. Pick up litter someone else threw out( for the same reason. If NO ONE picks up the litter others throw out we will all be living in a landfill soon). Be the better person, because humanity needs the people that rise above what all the other people are doing. So be kind for the sake of humanity as a whole, not for the one on one interaction with other humans, because those interaction may be less than kind. Here is one last thought. If you be kind to someone that wasn't kind to you, if it touched their hearts, they will perhaps be kind to the next person they meet and you will have made a difference.Besides what society deems rational,has not had a good history of being what was right.
sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi LadyDeborah
I see that you are good teacher.
Oh I agree about being kind when another person is not and how that can turn them around. That particular and specific event is one I am very interested in myself as an issue of political philosophy. It goes to the heart of social and personal life. It is the nexus of kindness of humanity as against the cash nexus of Capitalism. It is the most interesting point of study and I am sure you are right to draw your students attention to it.
Best wishes
:)
The answer for me is spiritual
sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi likatiga ·
Interesting. I have an idea what you mean but more explanation would be welcome if you could be so kind.
Best wishes
:)
@sogdianrock In the church of the village of my family. Above the alter it says, God is love. To be close to God, you must love unconditionally. You must become love yourself. That is my take on it
sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi likatiga
By love you maybe mean be selfless? Sure that is a good way for a community to achieve happiness and cohesion. Still religious values are often said to be weakening and have been replaced more with the belief in the rationality of pursuit of individual selfish goals. In Capitalism this aggregates into market forces and individual selfish behaviour results in outcomes which make the most people as happy a s they can be in the face of scarce resources. Anyway that is where my question started- so why be kind?
Thanks for your thoughts on it. I really am interested as I think not is most important people are kind to each other.
Best wishes
:)
SW-User
karma, even if you don't believe in it in the spiritual sense..what you put out does in fact come back to you.
sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi Kuronekko ·
Well does it? I mean you could say that was a truism and plenty of rich people look very happy with their often ill gotten gains. Lots of unpunished criminals.
A critical mass of adherents to the principals of Khama - amongst which is punishment for those who do not partake - is required for Karma as a social mechanism to work. Unless of course you practice it a spiritual level in which case it is a matter of faith and personal belief and determined action.
Best wishes
:)
SW-User
@sogdianrock try it, go around saying mean shit here and see what happens..it's logical, I'm not saying the universe balances out perfectly.
impulsive · 26-30, M
There is no reason. Nice guys finish last, niceness will get you nowhere in life I am afraid, it sure as hell won't get you the girl. Well not usually anyways there always exceptions but on average it pays to be an asshole more. This world bends over backwards for a dick. Myself I don't act like a dick but i'm no nice guy either, i'm just me, cynical, witty, harsh me.
sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi impulsive ·
you seem switched on to life's challenges!
Cynicism worries me but hey each to their own. I fear it sort of closes doors and then says there are no open doors. It is a self fulfilling prophecy I guess. Of course a cynic would say just realism.
I am interested in your view. I think it is actually the zeitgeist. I do not share it because I think kindness is as important as money is in oiling a human society.
Best wishes
:)
impulsive · 26-30, M
@sogdianrock I used to be a niceguy, i'm naturally a nice person but I think you can be nice and not be what we call a "nice guy" you should check out a book by a psychologist called Robert Glover called "no more mr nice guy" on how people like that aren't actually nice at all but instead passive aggressive insecure weak men.
SW-User
Because we can, and kindness might improve the mood, the day, the situation or the life of another. That's satisfying to the kind person and a gift to another.

Nice guys might or might not finish last, but the winning is in the act itself.
sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi TabulaRasa
It is funny to me that selflessness is something people get great reward from so why have selfishness at the heart of society so people are forced to behave in an unkind manner?
best wishes
:)
SW-User
@sogdianrock It's an excellent question. Certainly in my US culture, material wealth and possessions are king. We measure our success not by the selfless acts we've enacted or how we've helped better others but rather the car we drive or the summer house we have. It's disheartening. Don't get me wrong, I'm not aiming for a life of poverty, but what good is a house full of stuff if the soul is empty?
ozgirl512 · 26-30, F
I have a different answer to those below, based on the practical... Although I do also believe in the spiritual side ... Selflessness to the family or tribe is still selfish in a way... It's still lending a helping hand to your people ... As regards acts of kindness to strangers, some people just have a larger, more encompassing tribe
blueumbrella · 31-35, F
Coz i know the pain and how it hurts when others have been unkind to me and i dont like it, have felt it since i was a kid. I cannot be the reason to inflict any kind of hurt on others, even a little unkindness. So I can't be anything but kind to others.
sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi blueumbrella
That is a powerful truth.
Best wishes
:)
blueumbrella · 31-35, F
I often ask myself the same question,,why be kind.?
electropura · 31-35, M
I'm beginning to think it's pointless being kind. People ever think there's an ulterior motive to it, or just throw it back in your face. Can't win, ugh.
sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi electropura
I am sorry that you feel that way. I sense you are kind despite a lack of reward for being so? I have noticed this as a general disquiet and so was drawn to ask the question.
Plainly I have my own answer but it is an interesting question isn't it!. I often reflect on Kindness and personally I think it is a most important philosophical issue.
Best wishes
:)
electropura · 31-35, M
@sogdianrock Well, I don't want rewards as such for it, but I want to be satisfied by it and a simple thank you wouldn't go amiss, but more often than not, I feel disillusioned after a kind deed.
sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi electropura
Well thank you for your thoughts on kindness!
Sure I have had that feeling also! occasionally.
Still I believe that kindness is the optimal personal and social behaviour to adopt. It is a most interesting and important issue imho. Btw I did not mean people need reward in the form of thanks or peer recognition but reward in the sense of feeling good about being kind. The opposite of disillusion for sure!
Best wishes
:)
SW-User
Even in kindness, there's self-interest. It's to feel better or have a self-satisfaction. Even if people say its selfless, theres always something that stimulates mind about them being kind and it's a good feeling for them.
SW-User
But it usually is for self interest..because it makes us "feel good about ourselves"..while pretending it's all about the other person.
Planktin01 · 22-25, M
Because being nice can offer personal gratification as well as social.
sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi Planktin01 ·
Wise words.
Best wishes
:)
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sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi TheUltimateSaturn ·
Reciprocal kindness is the logical basis of kindness at a social level. If everyone plays by the rule then everyone is content to be kind.
Kindness to those who are unkind is a challenge. It is for me the more interesting point and is why I asked the question so why be kind? What happens if the rule breaks down and nobody is kind? Maybe we are there in large part? It really does matter!
Best wishes
:)
SweetMae · 70-79, F
Most of the time, I find kindness wherever I go.
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sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi runawaytrain ·
God then is a reference point for your moral code? God is Good.
I am unsure if it is natural to be kind because the pursuit of self interest is seen as rational behaviour. Rather perhaps kindness is taught, encourage and learned for some reason? Maybe not of course - maybe it is natural as you say? I think at an individual level pursuit of self interest is often the optimal behaviour leading to market forces and aggregations of individual preferences and the "democratic" capitalist system - at least in part. Still we are social animals and at the social level kindness is the personal and social optimal behaviour for a group to get on well.
Best wishes
:)
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sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi runawaytrain
I have worked as a carer. I found it very interesting work which I cared about irrespective of if I cared for the person individually. I did tend to care about clients but some were highly objectionable. I think your care for your mother being based in your personal relationship is valid and laudable and good for you and her. Paid care is a different but equally professional relationship - at its best. At its worst it can be a human rights nightmare as you say. Interesting what you say
Best wishes
:)
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sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi Crescendo
Interesting what you say. I come across this use of the term "ego" quite often on SW. I do not subscribe to it myself or really understand it. I find it jars with me.
I think I agree with you though that apparently selfless behaviour serves the individual at a group level in gaining approbation and acceptance from the group who also practice kindness? However many people do not do so and are at best indifferent to others. I just wonder how kindness survives?
Best wishes
:)
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sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi Crescendo
I will need to reflect.
I think something can be "not bad" and also be "not true" or "not correct entirely".
Interesting points you raise.
Best wishes
:)

 
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