I Am Single

@lostinspice Which, I think, brings me back to the original list of expectations. As in "I expect you and I will change. I expect we will later in life want different things. I therefore expect that in (insert some number of years or when the children reach some age), we will have to decide if we want to remain together."

Seems a bit more realistic, more honest. Then again, how many people in their 20's, and in that period of "love" where everything is wonderful and all is possible, can, or even could imagine saying that?

I do get what you are saying. Once, marriage and family was a different thing, and it had for each partner different expectations. The female stayed home, was the homemaker, with all that implied. Today she is so much more, that it's virtually impossible for her to manage it all, and still have anything left for herself. Realities have changed, expectations haven't, or at least not sufficiently so. Men have to change more than we have. We (men), generally speaking, have a long way to go. Unfortunately, the change men have to make isn't yet supported by society in general, just as the immense change and burden that women have gone through and now undertake, isn't yet fully accepted, nor supported by society in general.

So, how then does a man, any man, get to the point of understanding and accepting all this? How does a man get to the point of understanding he has to be not just a figurehead, but one who is truly vested in a 50/50 split of all the responsibilities of marriage and raising children? Is it the responsibility of his wife to get him there, to explain and expect this? He is not born knowing this, nor does he have many role models to follow, or few anyway. Does that responsibility (teaching him) then become just another burden for women? If so, then does that change how she feels about him? How can they maintain the intimacy of that union if one becoems the teacher? Geesh! More complicated than I thought :).

It's that old thing of walking into a room and seeing either a) it's a mess, those cups need moving, the cushions putting back on the chair, the books back on the shelf, the TV looks dusty, the carpet needs a hoover...or b) Mmm...chair. TV remote. Relax.

@lostinspice Yep, and a) perfectly illustrates the differences. A man walking into that room does not see the mess, the cups, the cushions, etc. Really, he doesn't. Not an excuse, rather a fact. Nobody taught him to see those things. The women, on the other hand, was taught those things were her responsibility.

Even our chat here illustrates how many of us (men and women) think, see, etc., differently. How would I know that picking up those cups was something that would strengthen my marriage, or at the very least, in not doing it, damage my marriage?

Maybe that sit down and talk doesn't need to wait for 10 years, maybe it should be a yearly thing.

I'm way on the other side of marriage, and I can sit back and think of all this. See my mistakes, and understand how and why I am where I am. I get it... now. I didn't always get it. Now I am fine with being alone, and guess what, I do all the things necessary to have a clean, nice home. Do them myself, and find it rather rewarding; but I wonder, if I got married again, would I continue, or would I revert to the guy who grew up thinking it was the woman's job? I wouldn't, I know that; but I do see how this is a huge issue, one that ruins otherwise solid marriages.

What you wrote is true, but I stayed in my marriage until my kids were grown. My ex-husband and I are no longer married, but we will always be a family.

@Pianist1234 He works too, he is not just a layabout, but he has always chosen to work either away for months at a time, or shifts, or long hours so he is not in when I am - even before we had kids. He can't cope with any job stress so he chooses low paid work with no multitasking or executive functioning required, if he can. And I have always earned more, apart from when I was at home for a short while with the kids when they were very little, and have a professional job now. I do feel now that he is my third child, and the other two are growing up and becoming more independent, and he is getting worse. And if I hold onto him whilst resenting him, I am preventing him finding happiness with someone else.

@jaymic64 Thank you:)