Only logged in members can reply and interact with the post.
Join SimilarWorlds for FREE »

Do you want me to see you as my equal or as a woman

It is very hard to respect a person who on one day wishes to be looked at as my equal. On the next day when things are difficult she wishes to be looked upon and treated like a woman. This is very complicated but it is making men like myself very reluctant and uneasy around female counterparts.

Also I saw a news story where a woman slapped a man and spit on him while he was eating. The man stood up and punched her one time he broke her jaw. Everyone is angry at the man they say he has abused a woman. Unfortunately in the world that I live in if a man slapped another man and spit on him he would expect to get punched. This once again brings up the question do you want us to look at you as ladies or do you want us to look at you as equals?
firefall · 61-69, M
If you dont see treating a woman as a woman involves treating her as an equal, you're the one with the problem, buddy
Capt11 · 46-50, M
@firefall It is always interesting to me that when a person ask a question instead of them receiving and itelligent feedback they are usually met with negativity. I am asking the question because I sincerely want to learn I am not perfect but if I cannot turn to the brothers and sisters of the world to help educate me without being told I have a problem when does it ever get fixed.
Sharon · F
@firefall Treating a woman as equal to a man means treating her the same as one would treat another man. Treating her as "a woman" implies special treatment, therefore unequal.
If you reread this you will see that you can!t see a woman AND an equal. Why is that?

Equal doesn't mean "the same."

50 pennies and. a half dollar are equal but they're not the same.

Never in my working life did I ask for special treatment or even imply I deserved different treatment due to my gender. I have seen a few other women do it, but not many, and I have seen men do it, too. A boss who just got chewed out by HIS boss over something that did not include you comes back and reads you the riot act because he feels his job was threatened. He may or may not apologize later, and his reason may be "that's just how men react. Anger, not tears."

Either way somebody is getting treated badly through no fault of their own.

Can you be more specific about how women want respect one day and special treatment the next?
@Capt11 My take on it is - if I treat a woman or a black person or a handicapped person worse that those I consider my 'natural peers' that is discrimination, and in the long run everyone is poorer for it. If I treat them BETTER, that is condescension and I will never see them clearly, as my equal, or as just another human with flaws and foibles just like me, and again everybody loses.
Capt11 · 46-50, M
I am going to accept that, thank you for your wisdom and insight and for not being rude.
@Capt11 You are welcome and thank you for not being rude too!

There is an advantage to my age. I can remember when almost nobody thought the way almost wverybody does today, and I understand sometimes we have to give people some time to catch up. Just because I got up this morning and changed my whole way of thinking doesn't mean YOU did, too.
RoboChloe · 26-30, F
An equal, and a woman, are the same thing.
Capt11 · 46-50, M
@RoboChloe I appreciate your opinion I thank you for your time but that does not answer my question unfortunately.
Equal does not mean that women can be handled the same way a man can. The physiological differences btw the sexes demonstrate just that. She shouldn’t have spit on that man- who does that!?! People should be treated equally, but there will be considerations made to be sensitive to someone’s race, religion, sex and sexuality. Everyone is different, but should be treated equally. Equal means civil, political and social equality that allows women to have the same status, rights and opportunities as men.

Maybe on those hard days she was really asking for you to be more sensitive to your differences because she’s a woman and doesn’t know some of the things you know or do some of the things you can do. Maybe some dude made her feel unequal and she wants you to listen as her partner and not just her equal. Does not make her unequal in her status as a human, just makes her different. If we make the meaning of equal literal, then she would be treating you like a woman so we know that’s not right.
Sharon · F
@DecafD [quote] Self defense is different from equal rights[/quote]
Violent women often claim they're entitled to attack men without fear of injury because they're "only a woman". Equality works both ways. We cannot expect to alternate between being treated equally or preferentially as it suits us.
@Sharon I agree. I think everyone is just missing my point. Violence is not included int the definition of equal rights so it would be unfair for someone to claim their equal rights were infringed if they were injured bc someone had the right to defend themself from that person. Equal rights has nothing to do with whether or not someone violently attacks someone else. Now if we are talking about equally self defending one another, which is where you’re going, then it reaffirms your position on this. You cannot do onto others what you do not want done to yourself.

The misunderstanding in my posts is merging equal rights with self defense. The main argument should have been posed as do we all have to right to equally defend ourselves in an instance like this without being branded with a stigma bc of gender differences.
@Sharon it does not infringe on a woman’s equal rights bc NO ONE has the right to assault someone else. That’s all I’m trying to stress. They are 2 completely different things.
AnarchoMetalchic · 36-40
As a woman, both. I want you to know that I can be just as strong as you are, and that I can defend myself in most situations. (Albeit verbal, mental, etc.) I can support myself, and I'm just as capable as you. I don't always need you to step in and help me.

But I also need you to be my rock, and have my back when I need you to. When I come home and feel beaten down by the day, I need you to be sensitive, treat me like a woman, and help me remember my worth. I need you to be my soft place to fall, and my biggest fan in moments of hopelessness. Hope this helps to give you some insight. I don't know how he does it, but my husband seems to know just the right times to treat me like a lady and be sensitive, and when I just need him to hug me and tell me to go sit down while he makes dinner.
Capt11 · 46-50, M
@AnarchoMetalchic I applaud your husband for being able to manage himself in such a way. You are the 1st person to give me 100% insight and honesty. You are absolutely right you want to be both. This is my problem with that,when we get it wrong from time to time be a little understanding. As men we try our best but we will make mistakes. The penalties should not be so high when we do. Thank you and have a great day.
4meAndyou · F
When all is said and done, all people are unique. You might meet a man or a woman who doesn't know how to change their own tire. You might meet a man or a woman who really enjoys dressing up to go out for dinner because it makes them feel sexy.

But when it comes to back and forth abuse, men DO have to be MORE careful because they are very large and very strong, and women, like children, are smaller and usually weaker. That doesn't mean small dogs don't bite. it just means try to keep yourself out of jail.

It also means you should always be as respectful as possible, mind your manners, help out if you see that help is needed, and if you want sex give a potential partner what he or she seems to want.

Don't send yourself to jail by being stupid and abusive, and understand that this is not an all or nothing situation. There is no black and white in this....and you can apply that maxim to all of life.
@4meAndyou The problem is that some women think they can attack men with impunity. It's made worse by the fact that the police almost invariably take the woman's side, even where it's obvious she's the aggressor.
4meAndyou · F
@NortiusMaximus Abusive people are abusive people. If you respond, hit back, HURT back and you are a male who weighs 200 lbs with a great deal of natural strength, and SHE weighs 110, then you, also, are a stupid abusive POS.
@4meAndyou Likewise, if you are a female who weighs 200 lbs, with a great deal of natural strength, and HE weighs 110 lbs, then you, also, are a stupid abusive POS.

The same applies to any woman who thinks she has the right to physically attack a man with total impunity.
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
Capt11 · 46-50, M
@MichaelJT I understand where you are coming from that is why I made the comments and asked the question. I respect women and I believe there are always a few who are bad apples. I understand those few do not represent the entire female population but it is very complicated and that is why I asked the question. Thank you for your time and your comment.
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
tallpowerhouseblonde · 31-35, F
Men and women are equal.We bring different things to the table sure.That woman was wrong to initiate things.Men and women both have the same rights to not be subjected to that and to defend ourselves.
When I was 18 and splitting up with my 25 year old boyfriend he tried to slap me.Dumb move,I had a karate first Dan black belt and I can wrestle, which he already knew.I stopped him and retaliated savagely.By the time my parents got me off him I had scratched punched kicked and thrown him like a rag doll,pretty much beating him to a pulp.They got him to the ER.
tallpowerhouseblonde · 31-35, F
@Capt11 Thank you I will.
Sharon · F
@tallpowerhouseblonde [quote]By the time my parents got me off him I had scratched punched kicked and thrown him like a rag doll,pretty much beating him to a pulp.[/quote]
According to "real men" (better known as violent thugs), if he had attempted to defend himself he would have been in the wrong, "a woman beater".
tallpowerhouseblonde · 31-35, F
@Sharon I believe that too.He did try to defend himself he just failed and he initiated things.
I think you’re confused. You wouldn’t hut your grandfather would you? He is your equal just not your peer. Some people are stronger than others. That doesn’t have much to do with having respect for another person’s opinions and wishes.
Capt11 · 46-50, M
I do not know you but I respect you for your intelligence. I respect you for having the patience to dialog. I appreciate you putting in the time and effort. Because we have that basic respect I think we could get along. We may not always agree on every issue but we have a foundation that will allow us to listen and consider. If every person was like you I would not care what gender they were what sexual orientation they were what color or ethnicity they were.
If an old man spit on you, you would break his jaw? If your partner spit on you , you would break their jaw? Your partner is not your friend. You might hit one of the guys but you wouldn’t hit your partner because if the relationship you gave with them. You wouldn’t hit a teacher no matter the gender. You wouldn’t hit them because of their position in this world. You respect their role.@Capt11
Capt11 · 46-50, M
Once again you make valid comments I appreciate what you are doing. I am going to tell you I would not do a lot of those things just because I see outburst of anger different. Trust me it is hard to walk away when you feel disrespected but sometimes you do give a pass just because you know what is the right things do. It may not be easy but you know in your heart it is right. I think that is the point are making and I understand that.
Cloud7593 · 46-50, F
I can see your point. I, for one, just want to be treated with respect. I don't expect men to treat me like a dainty little thing. AT the same time a lot of men disrespect women by expecting them to wait on them hand and foot just because they are men I won't let then get away with treating me like an inferior servant.
Capt11 · 46-50, M
@Cloud7593 I can totally understand where you are coming from. I think the biggest point that I am trying to get across is that many women want equality but then complain when you give it to them. Thank you for taking the time to respond I hope you have an amazing day.
Sharon · F
@Capt11 [quote]many women want equality but then complain when you give it to them.[/quote]
I agree some women are like that but most of us now recognize equality means accepting the rough with the smooth. One can't have unequal equality, nor can we have the same rights as men unless men have the same rights as we.
I can see how you would find this puzzling based upon your upbringing and your generation. I don't think men and women are equal. Some things a woman cannot be capable of doing the same as a man. Other things, yes. Same with men. I want to be looked upon as a person who is kind, caring, intelligent, and humorous. I am a woman. You are a man.
@PoetryNEmotion Yes. Your reply reminded me of this scene from Funny Girl, which has nothing to do with office gender politics but I like it🏸[youtube=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cT0qV62Yxsw]
Sharon · F
@PoetryNEmotion [quote]Some things a woman cannot be capable of doing the same as a man. [/quote]
Such as?

On average, men are taller than women but that doesn't mean a 160 cm man is taller than a 180 cm woman. If I need a tall person to do a job, I'll hire a tall person, [b]regardless of their sex[/b]. A sexist would hire a man, regardless of his height.
Coralmist · 41-45, F
The issue here is not, ONLY IF a woman wants to be subjected to punches and physical violence , are they THEN , equal.😐 Whether a man or woman wishes to punch another is their own (often ignorant) choice, but it has no bearing, on if both are 'equal'.
Coralmist · 41-45, F
@Capt11 Ok so I'm sure SOME women expect to not get hit back if they act like a spoiled princess and hit a guy. But, then again SOME men expect to have ppl bow down at their feet, esp. women, when THEY 'behaved poorly' ..as you put it. So both genders, can be total obnoxious assholes or bitches. But , are men and women equal ? There's just no questioning or doubting it, in any way. You can' t have one, scientifically, w/out the other. The very NOTION that they were not equal , whoever initially thousands of years ago brought that up, well, it's ludicrous.
Capt11 · 46-50, M
I appreciate your opinion thank you have a good day.
Coralmist · 41-45, F
@Capt11 You too🐦
rckt148 · 61-69, M
Cap the made me laugh a belly laugh
It reminded me of a time I squared off with this black girl in school .
I envisioned me getting her in a head lock ,still holding my books and papers
and she would know she met a boy not taking her crap ,and it would be over

It ended with me seeing stars ,my books and papers all over the playground .
and her standing over me asking me if I wanted some more .

From that day on my Dads rule ended 1/2 my problems
Since that day I have never fought another girl ,for any reason ,and I have been slapped .

But no guy is doing that to me ,I would ask someone to hold my beer and my books
Capt11 · 46-50, M
@rckt148 Thank you for the reply you are a man similar to me. I would not engage in that type of violence either I realized that whenever you hit a woman you can never win and you will always be wrong. However a guy will not be that lucky. I Understand because I think like that I do not treat everyone the same however I am trying to be a better man.
rckt148 · 61-69, M
@Capt11 just you saying that would imply to me you already are
its the people that don't get we all could stand to improve that never change
Some values instilled in me will never change ,like hitting woman
(well unless I can't tell she is a woman and she is hitting on my woman ,I will repent for that one afterwards I guess LOL)
I was raised to be a souther gentleman (Grandma influence )
Have a good one and thanks for the laugh
Capt11 · 46-50, M
Like always it was nice hearing from you
Starcrossed · 41-45, F
As a woman physically, as your equal or superior professionally.
Capt11 · 46-50, M
@Starcrossed I am not sure I understand your post.
Starcrossed · 41-45, F
@Capt11 I'd like you to treat me as a woman when it comes to expectations of physical strength ... I'm not going to be able to open that jar and the giant bag of dog food.
But at work, unless you are my boss or someone organizationally higher up than me, I want you to treat me as an equal. If I am organizationally higher ranking than you, I expect that to be recognized.

Having been in many a conference room completely dismissed only to have a male counterpart whom hadn't been there nearly as long as me restate my exact words and him be understood or acknowledged when I wasn't ... I can say it is frustrating as HELL and incredibly demoralizing.
Capt11 · 46-50, M
I agree that was a clear honest answer. I have seen that done and I always give or redirect the CREDIT.
SW-User
treat me with respect and you can be who you want to be
Capt11 · 46-50, M
@SW-User Yes I believe respect is an important part of the equation. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
SW-User
I assume you are talking about home life because I've never had the "woman" card pulled on me in 20+ years of work.

Interesting vague article you're talking about. Details would be nice.
Capt11 · 46-50, M
@SW-User No I am not talking about my home life. You have been very fortunate to not face one of the largest social issues of our time. Because you have Never dealt with this issue it would mean your opinion would have no real life experience to validate it. I thank you for your time and I wish I had the great experience you have had.
SW-User
@Capt11 What industry are you in?
Your position is that men don't react differently when things are difficult, they're always on an even keel?
Capt11 · 46-50, M
@Mamapolo2016 No I understand we are all very emotional humans We all have flaws and some of us accentuate them more lol
@Capt11 So very ttrue.
Lisasmiling · 46-50, F
I love what you have written here! I want to be treated as a woman, precious and cherished like a gem.
abe182 · 46-50, M
assholes don't have a gender
Capt11 · 46-50, M
@abe182 I am going to assume that you are talking about the woman in my example when you use that term. I understand that 100% but that does not answer my question. I thank you for your time but please take a look at what I asked.
abe182 · 46-50, M
@Capt11 yes I am. If she acts like that she can no longer hide behind her gender.
Capt11 · 46-50, M
I want to agree with you but somehow I keep hearing something that was told to me by a very kind person. It is easier to act out then it is to turn the other cheek. It is very hard to turn the other cheek but is it the right thing to do even when a person does not deserve your charity and your patience. Thank you for your comment you have a great day.
Equal is means we hate the same rights. It doesn’t eat we don’t we don’t have differences.
SW-User
I read this like it was straight out of Mad Men.
And that’s [b]why[/b] I would never hit a man (nor anyone) unless I was already in their grasp and fighting to get away. If I just hauled off and hit someone, I would expect to get hit back, because I do see things as equal. I’m a feminist, and in intellect I’m on fairly solid footing. But physically I’m no prizefighter and I realize it.
This message was deleted by its author.
Capt11 · 46-50, M
@SW-User I can greatly respect that. A woman is a beautiful and valuable part of our world. Without you our world would lack so many wonderful things. Thank you for taking the time to respond, have a good day.

 
Post Comment